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Susan Hyatt (00:00):
Is there something you wish you had the nerve to do?

Susan Hyatt (00:04):
Welcome to, you've Got Nerve, the podcast that teaches you how to conquer your fears, upgrade your mindset, and get up the nerve to go after whatever you want.

Susan Hyatt (00:15):
If you wish you had the

Susan Hyatt (00:16):
Guts to go all in on your goals, dreams, and desires,

Susan Hyatt (00:20):
This show is for

Susan Hyatt (00:22):
You. I'm master certified life coach Susan Hyatt, and I am so excited for you to join me on this journey.

Susan Hyatt (00:31):
Hey, hey, hey, Susan Hyatt here with another exciting. You've got Nerve episode and a fascinating guest. Now, I want to set the stage for this because many of you, maybe you've been coupled up or married for a long, long time. I personally have been married 31 years at the time of this recording. And still you're going to get something out of this episode, which is with Sarah Kernos, who is a breakup coach. She's a dating coach who specializes in how to forget your ex. Now, if you're like me, you may be thinking, I don't need to listen to this. I don't even remember my exes. Or maybe you remember your exes a little too well, 30 plus years later. Here's my point though, the things that we're going to talk about today, I think are so relatable no matter what kind of negative thinking you're trying to ditch, and I think you will find it wildly entertaining.

(01:38):
So let me tell you a little bit about our friend Sarah here because I've known Sarah for a long, long time and I'm so happy to have her on the show. She's a breakup and dating coach. As I've mentioned. She helps clients go through a healing process. So she helps people not just forget heartbreak, but heal heartbreak and reconnect to their wholeness. And she's obsessed with eliminating the phrase. And here's where I jump up and down in unison. She's obsessed with eliminating the phrase I lost myself in my relationship from all women's future vocabularies. Now, I know you can get down with that because how many of us have lost ourselves in parenting, relationships, work, relationships, marriages, partnerships? I just talked to somebody over the weekend who, like many women at midlife, she's trying to figure out who the hell she is after raising all of these children.

(02:45):
So after years of making every possible dating mistake, Sarah now teaches a system that makes it fun, easy and joyful. Okay, so a couple of weeks ago I had another dating expert on the show, Lily Womble. She wrote the book, thank You More Please. And she's the creator of Date Brazen. Now, Lily helps you figure out who you want to date, what your deal breakers are, how to have fun with dating and all of that amazing stuff. And Sarah, I see she does those things as well, but she focuses on healing, heartbreak, and then going into your next dating relationship hole. So a little different, very different stories. Sarah has spent 15 years working in professional theater and she's most proud of directing a show at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. So she'll happily talk for hours about the pleasures of running, eating dessert and backpacking through Italy. But today we've got her to talk about how to forget your ex in 10 days. Now, don't run away after this episode. I have some things I want to share with you. On the flip side.

Susan Hyatt (04:07):
Welcome to you've Got Nerve, Sarah.

Sarah Curnoles (04:10):
Thanks Susan. I'm so happy to be here.

Susan Hyatt (04:12):
I'm so happy to have you because so many clients come to me about many things and ultimately what comes up is their dating relationships because many of my clients are midlife folks who are in the dating scene again, and this is your specialty.

Sarah Curnoles (04:41):
Those are my people.

Susan Hyatt (04:43):
I mean, these are your people. And so when you think about your mission in helping people not only navigate the dating scene but thrive, where do you think you fit? If I were to say, oh, Sarah's a dating coach, what would you say? What do you got the nerve to say?

Sarah Curnoles (05:07):
Yeah, so for me, I feel like the person you pick as your lifetime partner is probably one of the most influential decisions you're going to make in your life.

Susan Hyatt (05:17):
And

Sarah Curnoles (05:19):
When I look at somebody and I'm helping them after a breakup, in my opinion, you have no time to waste. They say time heals all wounds. And I think that is the biggest, I don't know cop out that I've ever heard of. Sure, we can wait, but the women listening to your podcast, Susan, we can't afford to wait. Listen, we have bigger things to do.

Susan Hyatt (05:43):
I think that's the first time anybody has ever said that, that I've heard that I love because you do hear time heals all wounds

Sarah Curnoles (05:52):
And we're like,

Susan Hyatt (05:53):
Listen, tick motherfucking talk. All right. I mean, my whole book that I'm writing is about the second half of life, but many of my listeners are in the third act or so. If y'all are listening to this and you're millennials welcome. You count two.

Sarah Curnoles (06:16):
Absolutely. But one of my current clients, she's 72, and she's like, I don't want my marriage anymore. I want real love. And I haven't had that for 42 years.

Susan Hyatt (06:27):
Whoa. Whoa. Listen. Correct a mendo, anybody who is out there settling this episode's for you. Okay, so time heals all wounds. What really heals all wounds? What do you think? If it's not time, what is it?

Sarah Curnoles (06:44):
I think it's conscious. I think it's focused on our nervous system. I think it's resetting our nervous system so that we establish safety because it's such a time of no safety. A breakup is so major, you thought you knew what your future was going to look like and now you have no clue and there's so much change happening. A lot of people have to move. They have to figure out finances. They have all these big, big life questions. And your nervous system is constantly trying to figure out how do I move forward in this? And if your nervous system is so activated in fight, flight, freeze, like those common things we hear about, if it's so activated, it can't focus on making good decisions on what is your bigger mission in the world. We can't focus on work, we can't focus on all of those other more important things that we want to be doing with our lives. It's just really trying to figure out how do I survive today?

Susan Hyatt (07:47):
Wow. I have had people say that to me when I'm promoting a message or big yes energy or whatever it might be. And I have people sometimes email me or DM me and say, I'm just trying to make it through the day. Susan Hyatt. Okay, that's all well and good, but I'm just trying to survive over here. And I do recognize that, that people are stuck as you're saying, their nervous system is activated in fight, flight or freeze. So when you're working with someone, and recently you've come out more with your specialty of being a breakup coach. And so when you say how to forget your ex in 10 days, what kind of work are you doing with people to make that happen? Listen, you and I both know clients are still talking about a breakup an X for years. So 10 days. Tell us more.

Sarah Curnoles (08:57):
Yeah, I mean honestly, it's what I wish I had because I felt great that I got over my ex in four months, my most recent relationship. But I had others where honestly, I was carrying that resentment around. The breakup was eight years ago. I finally dropped it a year ago, so I carried that resentment for seven years. Yeah, that's gross. Instead of

Susan Hyatt (09:22):
Age, it's a seven year resentment.

Sarah Curnoles (09:25):
Oh yes. So if I'm helping people forget their X in 10 days, look, I'm holding. I will say one of the things that makes me a great coach, but a terrible girlfriend is I love potential. I love what's possible for a person that does not make a great girlfriend, but that makes a really great coach. So I am holding that vision of what's possible in 10 days, and I am making sure you are committing to that all the way. And so what we do is we eradicate shame, we heal your nervous system, we get super clear on what is your future, so you're more excited about your future than you were about your past. And then we do some processing stuff of how to actually feel your feelings, how to process your feelings all the way through so they don't get trapped in your body. I like to think of it an alchemizing process because nobody teaches that. Nobody tells us how to feel sad or how to feel anger in a way that feels safe. So all of that combined in 10 days is, I like to think of it like a magical portal that you're going to come out on the other side and I promise you're not going to be thinking about your ex anymore.

Susan Hyatt (10:42):
And so if you're able to come out of this portal and not be thinking about this X, what are you thinking about? What's your favorite part of doing this?

Sarah Curnoles (10:54):
Oh yeah, actually, I love the women where it's not necessarily about the next relationship. It's like what is my best life actually look like? Does it look like I love that. Yeah. I think for the first time we are more concerned with what makes me feel good, what lights me up from the inside? How do I want to be involved? Do I want to be working on Kamala campaign? Do I want to be training for a marathon? Do I want to go travel the world? Let's get super excited. And then the relationship that comes along can be the cherry on the sundae, not the whole ice cream kit and caboodle.

Susan Hyatt (11:34):
Exactly, exactly. So it's really thinking about, because I mean, you and I both know that girls and women are trained by culture at large, family of origin and religion to prioritize and in heterosexual relationships, men and how we fit with a man's plan. So how we appear as on their arm, how we accompany and prop them up, how we have their children, all these things. And when you really disrupt that narrative is what you're doing and say, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to center what you actually want so that you're not the accessory to your life, your man's life, and you are prioritizing what you want, then you can welcome in a relationship that is authentic.

Sarah Curnoles (12:45):
Yeah, it's what you talk about of main character energy. Because so many of the people that come to me, and I'll say to many of the women specifically, I don't hear this as much from the men that come to me. The women spend so much time talking about their ex-husband, their ex-partner, their ex-boyfriend, and I'm like, hello, where are you in this? You just spent 10 minutes telling me what a good guy he is, but he's not supporting you through cancer treatment.

Susan Hyatt (13:13):
Wow. Hello, where are you?

Sarah Curnoles (13:16):
Where are you?

Susan Hyatt (13:17):
Oh, hello, where are you? That's a book title.

Sarah Curnoles (13:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But it's true, because the response I always get after that is I lost myself in the relationship. I don't know where I am.

Susan Hyatt (13:31):
Wow, okay. What are the men talking about?

Sarah Curnoles (13:36):
The men are talking about, oh, they are avoiding their feelings because they're taught not to. They're taught you're not allowed to have feelings. You have to be the strong silent type. Anger's dangerous. So don't get angry. But they're all angry and sad and they don't know what to do about it. And it's kind of coming out sideways, unfortunately.

Susan Hyatt (14:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's interesting about the work that you do. You work with both men and women?

Sarah Curnoles (14:11):
I work with all genders. Yeah,

Susan Hyatt (14:13):
All genders.

Sarah Curnoles (14:14):
All genders.

Susan Hyatt (14:16):
And so when you help these women step into their main character energy, what do you notice? What happens?

Sarah Curnoles (14:28):
Actually, the first thing I notice is there's a lot of fear that comes up because it's so new and unfamiliar to center themselves in their lives for the first time, it truly is two steps forward, one step back, which I tell them that's still progress. That's still one step forward. But it really is, and again, going back to the nervous system of setting safety of it's safe to be me, it is safe to be in the world. It is safe to have wants and needs and preferences. So the more that because get this surge of excitement and power of like, yes, I'm doing it. I don't know. I have a client who's moving out and she gets all excited about it, and then she kind of slows down and she stops packing. And that's normal. That's kind of normal of the surge of energy. And then we have to establish your safety of like you are going to be safe living by yourself for the first time. You're going to be safe making choices and figuring out what dinner looks like every night.

Susan Hyatt (15:39):
And so when women are coming to you, like this 72-year-old client who's like, yo, well, she's probably not saying yo, she might, she's

Sarah Curnoles (15:49):
Not.

Susan Hyatt (15:51):
She's like, I want to have actual a relationship that's loving. I haven't had that for 40 whatever years. What are the biggest obstacles to your clients centering themselves? What kind of mind trash are they dealing with?

Sarah Curnoles (16:17):
Yeah. Relationships are a playground for us to be playing out our childhood wombs. I hate to say it, I'm not blaming our parents, but it's these things from our childhood and we play it out romantic relationships because it's a closeness that mimics the closeness that we had with our parents. So for me, I'll speak about my experience. I'm adopted, and for me in relationship, I feel safe if I'm chosen, if I'm proven, I'm love worthy. So I'm always trying to make the other person feel good. I'm always trying to prove my worth, essentially. And so it's uncovering these stories that are really just outdated programs. It's uncovering those so that we stop reenacting those. So I want to honor her story, but for her, one of them is competing for love is a story that she has from her family of origin of dad never gave enough love. She was one of several siblings. So she was always trying to hustle. Same story of Give me love, I can't get it enough. I'm parched, I'm starving. Yeah.

Susan Hyatt (17:35):
Kind of like my rescue be goal, my rescue bee goal is you cannot, he was kept in a cage for the first three and a half years of his life. And so I know, and he is the most loving, gentle, sweet dog ever. And you can't give him enough affection. You just can't.

Sarah Curnoles (17:58):
I mean,

Susan Hyatt (17:58):
I've never seen anything like it, and I understand why he is the way that he is. So when you are a woman reenacting or subconsciously playing out these scripts from childhood, and you're helping them learn that it is safe for them to be themselves and it's safe for them to want what they want, how do they show up differently dating when they do that work?

Sarah Curnoles (18:36):
There's a lot more conscious choice, I should say, of they are now, their eyes are wide open of like, oh, I see that pattern. That's the pattern. That was a lot my previous partner. So that way I don't have to choose that again. I can choose something else I can find. And we do get really clear on what does feel good to you, what aligns with what you want so that you're, you're not Bambi on wombly legs of like, alright, I'm not doing my old dance anymore. I don't quite know what my new dance is, and I'm wobbly now. We'll get really clear about that together of defining what that looks like so that you're not out in the wilderness as Bambi.

Susan Hyatt (19:22):
That's so interesting too, that we pick and choose the same type because we're playing out something.

Sarah Curnoles (19:35):
So again, it keeps coming back to the nervous system. I know this is really big in the coaching world right now, and I'm going deep on it, but there's a saying that goes around and I don't know who to attribute it to, will choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven every time.

Susan Hyatt (19:53):
Wow. Because one of the tools that, and that is like, holy crap. One of the tools that I teach in coach training is essentially using your body as a compass and understanding what feels negative and what feels positive. Because Optum we're disassociated from our bodies. We're all up here in our head about things and dating. I'm sure they're making pros and cons lists. What's with the real going around a man in finance six, five.

Sarah Curnoles (20:36):
Oh gosh.

Susan Hyatt (20:37):
And I'm like, no, but that there's criteria versus understanding what is registering for you. And also when I use the coaching question, what feels like love often, and now I'm having to really teach that tool differently because what feels like love is what you're saying is often a narrative from childhood that is comfortable, but it isn't necessarily good for us.

Sarah Curnoles (21:17):
Yeah. There's also a meme I keep seeing of if you come from a dysfunctional home love feeling like home is not the one you should choose. Something along those lines of like, yeah, we have to be careful.

Susan Hyatt (21:32):
And so if the work that you're doing, how to forget your X in 10 days, which is I think a lot of people listening would be like, sign me up because

Sarah Curnoles (21:48):
Yes, please.

Susan Hyatt (21:50):
I wake up and stab that voodoo doll. I wake up and I mean, I'm sure every woman listening to this podcast can resonate with hoping karma gets them right and hoping that they see you with your revenge body and All

Sarah Curnoles (22:16):
Right. Or trying to win the breakup.

Susan Hyatt (22:20):
And so instead of winning the breakup, the focus is on creating what it is that you really want out of life.

Sarah Curnoles (22:28):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to me, winning the breakup just means that you don't care about what the other person's doing anymore. And I had somebody the other day that's like, I can't forget my ex, because we co-parent. I'm like, yes, that's semantics. I would love for you to be unbothered when you interact with your ex. That's probably accurate. If there are people who still have to work with their ex, they still have to interact with them for co-parenting or whatever reason, unbothered when you hear their name or you have to talk to them. Right.

Susan Hyatt (23:02):
Well, and I think that you have firsthand experience. I

Sarah Curnoles (23:05):
Do.

Susan Hyatt (23:06):
Aren't I right that you are your ex's boss?

Sarah Curnoles (23:10):
I am. Yeah. So I mean, do you want to hear the whole story? Would you like to hear? Yeah, let's hear. Okay. So we broke up eight years ago, and we'll call him the actor guy. I have a few exes, I'm not married. So to separate the stories, he was not in a great place. He had been cheating on me. I found out he'd been hiding a couple of addictions, and this all came up the day after Valentine's Day. And it's one of those a hit my knees, moments of I couldn't get out of bed for three days. It was a messy, messy breakup, and I still begged him to take me back.

Susan Hyatt (23:54):
Whoa.

Sarah Curnoles (23:55):
Yeah. I was like, I can support you. We can work on this. We can figure it out. And he said, no, I need to work on myself.

(24:06):
So I wasn't in a great place either. It was really rough. And like I said, I didn't actually fully let go. I was his boss for the last two years, actually, it's been three years. I was his boss. He sent his amends a year ago, and I finally spoke my mind and I said everything I had been holding onto for however many years at that point, and it is actually what cleared it all up. And now I'm his boss. We had lunch together the other day. It was totally fine. I don't recommend that everybody say every single thing on their mind to every ex they have. It's just, it's what happened. It wasn't planned. I normally say, write that letter and don't send it or read it to me as your coach and let me be the witness. But I finally let go of all that anger and all that resentment I've been carrying onto for, what was that, seven years. And

Susan Hyatt (25:09):
When you finally let go of it, what did you notice happened for you?

Sarah Curnoles (25:17):
So if I pay attention to my body compass, I had a huge whoosh of release. I actually probably spent the rest of the day crying. And to me crying, it wasn't necessarily grief, it was literal body release. I let go of a lot. And then after it, I was clear, just like finally it felt peaceful and calm. And like I said, that I wish I had this 10 day program I created. Because what I felt on the other side is what I create for other people of you finally get to tap into, I can interact with this person and I'm fine. I don't have to modulate myself or worry. I'm going to say the wrong thing. I'm just kind of like, I am who I am now.

Susan Hyatt (26:07):
That's incredible. And a real testament to the work you're doing, right? Because don't, most people aren't able to have any kind of contact or relationship with their ex unless like you're saying co-parenting is required. And even then, it's often not a situation where people are unbothered,

Sarah Curnoles (26:36):
Right? There's usually a lot of tension and resentment and anger and hurt feelings.

Susan Hyatt (26:43):
And so I love that you're using what you've learned personally and professionally to help people really be free. And so do you have a favorite recent client story that makes you think, wow, I want to get this out to as many people as possible? I

Sarah Curnoles (27:07):
Do. I have a client, we've been working together for a little while. She came to me because she was going to leave her narcissistic husband, and she's older. She's been married 30 some years. And she actually decided, I'm actually going to stay and I want to make this work. And I said, okay, well, this wasn't what I thought we were going to do. So pivot quickly. And what we've been working on, it's still nervous system healing. It's still looking at what are the stories from your childhood and how is that playing out, and what ways do you want to shift this in your relationship in your marriage? And she said to me the other day, I am finally living free. I don't feel like I'm living every day in fear anymore.

Susan Hyatt (27:55):
What a huge testimonial to not live in fear.

Sarah Curnoles (28:02):
So she is signed up for horseback riding lessons that she does at least once a week. She's taking a major trip to India next year, like a 10 day trip by herself. And then she signed up for yoga teacher training because she's always been so afraid to be in front of people. But she's loved her private practice that she's like, I'm ready to learn. I'm ready to open up. I'm ready to be in front of people. And so she's building a life that went from being in a really small box of I'm this person's wife to now enriching her life with all these activities and killing her relationship with her daughter. Yeah.

Susan Hyatt (28:44):
Wow.

Sarah Curnoles (28:45):
So amazing. So it has such a ripple effect, right? That's my point of it's not just the relationship. She came for one thing thinking our work together was going to be something else and developed this rich life that she feels so clear in who she is that the relationships, the accessory.

Susan Hyatt (29:06):
Right? No, I think that that's so beautiful. And often in coaching, I mean, this is why I love coaching. People will come in, buy a ticket in for something, and then often what happens that might be, yes, that might end up happening or be the cherry on top, but the big work is so different than I think what people think is going to happen so much bigger, so much bigger than just getting the job, making the money, getting a relationship, et cetera. It's so much bigger than that. And I love that you're welcoming people in with how to forget your ex in 10 days.

Sarah Curnoles (29:52):
Absolutely.

Susan Hyatt (29:54):
And so Sarah, what do you think is next for you?

Sarah Curnoles (30:02):
What's next for me? The first thing that came to mind is, I don't know, global domination. I really want, I want to go big. I want people to know there's a different way. We don't have to wait half the amount of time that we were with somebody to get over. I'm like, all the breakup myths are just bullshit. I really want people to have a healthier way to handle grief and heartbreak, which are normal parts of human life. I'm not denying those things. Those are part of living, but let's handle them with grace and compassion so that we can get onto our real work in the world. And I think more people need that.

Susan Hyatt (30:46):
I agree. I agree. And so where do you want to invite people to hang out with you so they can learn more?

Sarah Curnoles (30:54):
Yeah, they can come find me on Instagram. It's just my name, Sarah Kernels, which I'm sure you'll link in the notes. But also I'd love to give them a gift because I feel like understanding our mind and understanding the way that we think is so important. So if they'd like to come play with me, I have some of my favorite journal prompts that I put together. They can go to top 10 journal prompts.com.

Susan Hyatt (31:21):
Oh, nice.

Sarah Curnoles (31:24):
And download my favorite ways to get into somebody's brain to look at what are those blueprints, what are our operating manuals? And go deep.

Susan Hyatt (31:34):
I'm going to go download it. Let's see. Let's see. Alright. Thank you so much, Sarah. This has been a delight, and I hope that your underling survives his next work review.

Sarah Curnoles (31:51):
We'll see. We'll see if he stays. Always good behavior.

Susan Hyatt (31:57):
Wasn't that fun? Oh my gosh. I would love for you to share this episode with anyone who is dating anyone who is healing after a relationship. Such good nuggets in this episode. And I really, really believe that Sarah's approach to healing after a breakup can help lead you to wholeness. Now, you may have noticed, if you follow me on social media, that we are enrolling for the university for life coach training. Now, I have a funny, funny, funny story for you and how it relates to this episode on relationships. So a couple of years ago, Scott Hyatt and I hired a couple's therapist, and we've been married all these years. Things need to be fine tuned. So we've had the same family therapist for now 20 years, who is also my individual therapist. And she was like, I am not going to be your couple's therapist.

(33:11):
Let's get some dude energy in on this. And so she made a referral. And y'all, when I tell you this was so funny, we went in for our session and I was so excited about it. And this gentleman, nice man, he's been working in couples therapy for decades, and he was trying to explain to me an example of what's called in the Gottman Institute world, something called the Gentle Startup. So it's basically how to approach difficult topics when you're in a calm, peaceful, happy energy rather than picking a fight when you're mad is the bottom line. So the gentle startup is approaching your partner on a topic when you're not in fight, flight, or freeze. So I'm listening. And the example that he chose to share with us was an example from his everyday life with his marriage where he was talking about his coffee, Tumblr, his travel coffee mug, and how he said it next to the sink so that the next time his wife washed the dishes, she would wash his coffee Tumblr.

(34:37):
And how he noticed that it just sat there and sat there unwashed for four days. And he was a little annoyed about this and decided that he would wait until he was in a good mood to practice the gentle startup and ask her from a calm centered place. So I immediately, I mean, I could feel the blood rising. And I was like, well, wait a minute. I mean, I understand what you're saying, but why didn't you just wash your own coffee mug, right? Is it your wife's job to wash your coffee mug? And he was sort of stunned by the question, and I was like, no, I need answers. Did you two divide up the household labor in such a way that dish washing is her thing and you do something else? And there really was not a good answer here. He had never heard of the invisible workload, which if you've listened to this podcast, you know what that means.

(35:39):
If this is your first episode listening to me and you've never heard the invisible workload, it's basically the unrecognized and unpaid emotional and physical labor that women do into that can equate to a second part-time or full-time job. Like we're walking around with these invisible backpacks full of things like managing the family's moods, knowing when so-and-so needs to go for their vet checkup, all these kinds of things that really go unnoticed and uncelebrated. And he had never heard of this. And I basically spent the session that I had paid for educating him on the invisible workload and how it wasn't his wife's job to wash his mug in the first stand place. So the point of me bringing this up is that he couldn't effectively counsel me because he couldn't see me.

(36:51):
He couldn't advise me beyond the lens of his patriarchal entitlement, basically. And so that's why the University for Life Coach training exists because we saw a gap. We saw a need in the coaching industry to be more inclusive. And so that's what we've created an inclusive training environment where the tools are built from the ground up using diversity, equity, and inclusion as the foundation. And so our tools reflect it, our faculty reflects it, our coaches embody it. And if you are looking to become trained as a life coach, we start August 20th. You can go to university for life coach training.com and apply. You can also DM me on social media. But I thought it was a fun example to share from my own life that like, Hey, I hired a therapist who couldn't effectively help us because of his limited training and scope. And I'm out to help coaches serve all populations and meet people where they are not just people who look and sound like them. So with that, I'm going to say thank you for listening to You've Got Nerve