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The Nerve to Do Something Different Ft. Haylin Dennison

In this episode, Haylin Dennison joins me for an inspiring conversation. Haylin is a Therapist and Executive Coach for Physicians, Residents, & Med Students, and a married mama of four. 

As Haylin says, she’s also a “million other things!” A Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Mental Health Activist, Speaker, award-winning Field Instructor, and so much more. 

Haylin wants to get up the nerve to shift her work in a way that better transforms medicine and empowers physicians—giving her a more free and consistent revenue stream. She’d also like to increase the impact of her work with her non-profit, Spill The Tea Cafe, a mental health clinic for teens.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • Why entrepreneurship is the deepest personal work you will ever do
  • Dealing with imposter syndrome
  • Handling opposition from decision-makers
  • Creating new ways to serve your ideal clients
  • The magic of working with people in-person

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Susan Hyatt (00:00):
Is there something you wish you had the nerve to do? Welcome to, you've Got Nerve, the podcast that teaches you how to conquer your fears, upgrade your mindset, and get up the nerve to go after whatever you want. If you wish you had the guts to go all in on your goals, dreams, and desires, this show is for you. I'm Master Certified life coach Susan Hyatt, and I am so excited for you to join me on this journey.

(00:32):
In today's episode, I have Halen Denison with us. Halen is a therapist and executive coach for physicians, residents and med students, and a married mom of four. As Halen says, she's also a million other things, a licensed clinical social worker, mental health activist, speaker, award-winning field instructor, and so much more. Halen wants to get up the nerve to shift her work in a way that better transforms medicine and empowers physicians giving her a more free and consistent revenue stream. She'd also like to increase the impact of her work with her nonprofit, spill the Tea Cafe, a mental health clinic for teens. I know you're gonna love being a fly on the wall in my conversation with Haylen. Let's get into it. Welcome to, you've Got Nerve Haylen. How are you today?

Haylin Dennison (01:29):
Hey Susan. Thanks so much for having me. I'm doing well. Very excited to be here.

Susan Hyatt (01:33):
Listen, I have had the privilege of watching you really bloom over the past couple of years and you've done so many incredible things from growing your business to starting your first brick and mortar cafe spill, the Tea Cafe, which is your a nonprofit. And now I hear you wanna get up the nerve to start something a little different than what you've been doing. Do you wanna tell people a little bit about your background?

Haylin Dennison (02:03):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Susan. You have been my business coach and really have not been able to do any of this without you. And so I'm so, so grateful. I think it's important for me to really express that, you know, it's been my own journey as well. And you should have warned me, Susan, about entrepreneurship and <laugh> what that entails because I had no idea that it's like forced therapy or forced personal development, whether you like it or not. Like all of this is gonna come up for, for us. And so I think my journey has really started off. You know, I've always wanted to be a therapist kind of growing up and understanding that I had my own mental health issues to deal with. And so I started off in, I went to University of California, a University of Southern California, and I started off in a drug rehab in la for teenagers.

(02:52):
And so that's really where my heart has been and been working with teenagers, you know, for 20 years now, <laugh>. And so you, you know, I I've also moved back home to Hawaii where I'm originally from and, you know, worked in multiple systems here. And so for those of you who have been through state systems or fed federal systems as a therapist, as a social worker, even as a physician you understand that the systems are broken. Right. And I think even now more than ever, we understand that mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so I've been working with physicians for about six years now. And then really just this past year have been working with a couple med schools to try to work on things like anxiety, depression for the med students, and then also decreasing the suicide rate among physicians.

Susan Hyatt (03:37):
Well, it's a pretty incredible offshoot, if you will, of the incredible work that you have already done. You know, just in the past year you were featured on M T V you have what was the, wait, there was a research study publication was, which one was it that you were like, oh, I was recently published there and I'm like, what? You need to wallpaper the internet with that info.

Haylin Dennison (04:09):
Yeah, thank you, Susan. I mean, it was because I'm not like an author on the project. It was the program that I created for one of the physician organizations that I work for. And so, you know, we have a new like engagement focused care coordination program, which really tries to combat like the silos of care that's being that we all kind of face when we go into healthcare. And so yeah, that was featured in the New England Journal of Medicine. That's right. The New

Susan Hyatt (04:36):
Journal of Medicine friends.

Haylin Dennison (04:39):
Yeah. And so just really understanding that these mental health issues are like the, so social determinants of health, like those are really determinants of health. Right. And we can't really look at a person or a patient without looking at those things.

Susan Hyatt (04:52):
Right. Amazing. So let's talk about what it is you're trying to get up the nerve to do now.

Haylin Dennison (04:59):
Yeah. So I think I, during this journey that you mentioned opening up spill the Tea Cafe, I think I have to say something about that before I move forward.

Susan Hyatt (05:10):
Please do. Cause that's a major accomplishment.

Haylin Dennison (05:13):
Thank you. I have four kids and my oldest child who's 14, you know, identified as non-binary gender, gender diverse. And it was really difficult to find my child resources, even being a therapist, even being well connected in the state, it's very, very difficult because of the lack of resources here in Hawaii. And so, you know, I did see not only my child, but so many other kids through this pandemic really suffer in terms of not being able to access care. And so we did decide with Maddie, who's my kid, he came up with like a really cool idea to open up a teen clinic specifically for teenagers. And so, you know, destigmatizing that it's like, how can we make this place a place where kids want to come? Right, right. Where they feel included. And so we offer BBA tea, coffee, snacks, we have like study area and free teen mentors, right.

(06:07):
But in addition to that, we do have mental health treatment, so individual therapy and group therapy, family therapy, things like that. And so I think, you know, just all of the opportunities that has come from that, like Stanford Children's, you know, collaborating with them, they have the first gender affirming clinic and they're helping Hawaii kind of get those things off the, the ground. And so I'm part of that. It's just been really difficult, I think, to raise funds and to really keep this nonprofit open because of all of the services that we give to the teens and because it's free of cost. And so what I learned through that is that it's kind of like a joke, a running joke between me and my C P A, but he's like, yeah, I've been doing this for 30 years, and most times people have a profitable business and then they open up a five one [inaudible] then they open up a foundation and he's like, this is not smart.

(06:56):
Ha. You're like, you opened up a five one C [inaudible] when you don't have the money, then you're funding it yourself. He's like, this is not, this is not, this is not working. Right. So just learning business and then being exposed to that's when I got myself a business coach, right. And just understanding that I have to be able to feed myself before I can feed others. And, you know, that is such a, that is such a struggle that so many healthcare professionals are in and therapists, social workers, physicians, right? And so learning that has been the most valuable thing for me. And I'm hoping that I could not only teach that to the physicians or med students, but even the teens that we work with, right. Understanding that we are the ones that need to get to know ourself first and foremost. If we don't, then we don't really have that confidence to make decisions in our business, in our life, in our relationships, all of it.

Susan Hyatt (07:44):
Right? Well, you're right. You, you were joking a a few minutes ago about why didn't you tell me that entrepreneurship was gonna be like, how did you word it? You were like an invitation forced personal development, <laugh>. Yes. And listen, I often tell folks that it is some of the deepest personal work you will ever do running a business.

Haylin Dennison (08:10):
Absolutely.

Susan Hyatt (08:11):
And, and and you have been running multiple businesses, so of course your experience is gonna be like 10 x. So let's talk about with, with all of these things you've got going on, you, you do have ideas on how to create different parts of your business that absolutely pay you as well as serve a need. So the latest thing is a retreat for physicians.

Haylin Dennison (08:42):
Absolutely. Yeah. And so I'm thinking that out of the pandemic and looking at the suicide rates, and then also just looking at the cer the clients that I'm servicing right now, right? It, it kind of feels like I'm saying a similar thing all the time mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And it's really about like, you know, physicians, they are highly,

(09:07):
You know, determined and they're highly successful and they're very, you know, they're just high achievers. Like, it's very common for doctors to have like straight a's their whole life or, you know, and so taking that kind of training and programming and then offering up this new type of thinking where, you know, it's, it's just not, medicine is not the way it, it's not, so the way that we're operating the system of <laugh>, you know, the, the healthcare system, it's really not serving us in this new and like advanced society, but yet we're still making like our residents and physicians like work 80 hour weeks. And, you know, when you just think about just basic needs like sleep and eating and, you know, that kind of stuff, that's not what's happening right now. And I don't, I just don't think people know about it. And so mm-hmm. <Affirmative>,

(09:56):
I think it's important for me as a social worker and also mental health activist to be able to say, okay, well, there are things that I can say, you know, being a therapist where I'm not facing that stigma, right? So they can't really ask for help, or maybe they can't go to their board because they might get, they might lose their license or they're afraid that they're not gonna be able to get credentialed here or there. But I can say it, right? Because I don't, I don't face those. And so I kind of got a calling midway, like, maybe I need to somehow voice this and then also offer some type of solution.

Susan Hyatt (10:31):
Yeah. And it, it, I have had a good handful of clients who were physicians who either felt very aligned with your message. I I've had a few clients that were physician advocates in that way but other clients that were just physicians who didn't know, like you said, how to advocate for themselves in a system that makes it really hard for them to have any sort of normalcy or self-care or boundaries if they wanna continue in that way. And, and I also personally know of a physician in my local community who just ended up retiring from medicine because she just couldn't see a way to reconcile what she knew she needed for her life and, and mental health, like you're saying versus like what she was feeling obligated to do in terms of performance and number of patients seen in a day and all those things. So

Haylin Dennison (11:34):
Absolut, absolutely.

Susan Hyatt (11:35):
What when you think about creating a retreat to serve physicians what's the ultimate goal of the retreat? Like, what do you, what do you hope happens for any retreat participant that comes?

Haylin Dennison (11:50):
I mean, I'm hoping for a transformation, right? The same way that I transformed, and I know that I'm not a physician, but in terms of your thought patterns and the way that you actually understand and become self-aware about your amygdala and like how that is running things, you know, and how you're always in fight or flight. I think it's so important for the physicians to understand that they are leaders. If you think about it, they are the most valuable resource, right? In healthcare. But they have so much, and again, it's not all physicians, but from what I see, they have so much imposter syndrome. Like, they don't feel like they're leaders when they are the leader, right? Like, they are the ones who can make that critical decision in that moment. And yet the way that the training is, it really it really emphasizes like perfection, <laugh> mm-hmm. <Affirmative>.

(12:39):
And I think that's really the opposite of what we need, right? I think that we need to teach failure as a part of learning and failure as a part of exploring the things that really speak to your soul, right? So even like when they're trying to match or when they're trying to go through these rotations the way that, and I, and I'm learning all of this, but it's like they go through all these rotations to kind of figure out what they wanna do and what specialty they wanna go into. But instead of really looking at, oh, what is the day-to-day gonna be like, oh, what is my lifestyle gonna look like? You know, how much money am I gonna make? They're just, they're just saying, how can I perform? Am I, how can I be perfect? And then wherever I'm the most perfect, I guess that's where I'm supposed to be.

Susan Hyatt (13:21):
Right? Right. And so what's scariest about offering this new offer to you? Like what, what makes you be like, oh my God, I gotta get on this podcast and have Susan help me get up the nerve? Like what, what part of this scares you the most?

Haylin Dennison (13:38):
So many things, and it's funny because it's the things that I talk about, but like imposter syndrome, you know, I am not a doctor. And so I think even when these contracts were offered to me, it was very intimidating. And I tell them all the time, right? It's, it is intimidating because when you are just a social worker and then now you're doing therapy with a physician, you kind of feel inferior. And that was like part of our training as well. And so me first doing the unlearning right? And understanding that this is something that I can teach, yes, I'm not a doctor, but I am an expert in mental health and that's what, that's what they're coming to me for. And so I kind of have that imposter syndrome. And then also understanding that I'm gonna get probably a lot of pushback from, you know, just already like administrators <laugh> and already I'm dealing with, you know, having to advocate for myself and advocate for the students or saying like, Hey, well I'm not going to, I don't think it's the best idea to hospitalize this person right now, because they're going to be seeing someone that could potentially be evaluating them, you know mm-hmm. <Affirmative>

(14:48):
For their grade or <laugh>, right? Like just understanding the nuances of the system mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and trying to be very ethical and making sure that everything that I do is aligned with my values. That's already been difficult, so I know that there's gonna be more of that. And so there's fear.

Susan Hyatt (15:04):
Mm-Hmm. So, right. So fear of first having a little bit residual imposter syndrome that like, oh, who am I to coach a physician? Right. number one. And then number two, fear that you're gonna come up against opposition from administration about doing what you know is right for right. That population. So my question my next question then is do you think that if a physician has a blown transmission in their car that their mechanic should have imposter syndrome? Who am I to repair this doctor's car?

Haylin Dennison (15:58):
Right? No, they should not. Yeah. Like, yeah.

Susan Hyatt (16:01):
That doctor has no idea what to do about that transmission. Right? Right. How are you so qualified and so perfectly primed and positioned to do the highest and best good for this physician population? Give me three reasons.

Haylin Dennison (16:23):
Well, because I've been doing it for almost seven years, specifically with physicians. Okay.

Susan Hyatt (16:29):
So, so you have seven years experience.

Haylin Dennison (16:31):
Right. And then I also have been doing this work in general for 20 mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and then I think, and

Susan Hyatt (16:37):
By this work that's like mental health counseling.

Haylin Dennison (16:40):
Yes. Like psychotherapy. And I think because I'm a social worker, right. And, and that in itself there's a lot of imposter syndrome because our training tells us that we should make 50 grand a year, you know, with a master's degree. Right. but really taking my power back and saying like, as a social worker, as a social activist, I understand the systems right. From 15 years ago, going through family court and understanding as a social worker there and understanding all of the gaps there and then going into, you know, the county and then the federal government and then the hospital system. Then I even worked for insurance companies where, you know, I lasted there like a couple months because I'm like, are you joking? This is ridiculous. How am I as a social worker supposed to see 150 patients who are the sickest of the sickest and you know, they have G tubes and all this stuff and I only have to see them once every six months.

(17:30):
Like, how is this even working? You know? And it's not, and it's not working. And so I do understand the systemic issues as well. And so that's why I was not able to sit around and wait for a robust clinic to happen for my child. And I had to go ahead and build it, you know, and, and I guess that's what I, I'm not telling everyone to leave medicine, right? But if you can find autonomy in whatever you're doing, even if you're working for a hospital system or even, you know, say you decided to go into private practice, but I think a lot of med students, the next generation of physicians, it is, they just don't understand that there's so many more options and they do have power. Like you don't have to just sign every contract the hospital gives you.

Susan Hyatt (18:15):
Well, what's funny is I'm like, okay, gimme three reasons why you are perfectly positioned and primed to do this work. And you gave me three unbelievable reasons, right? And then coming from that place, you just immediately gave basically a TED talk <laugh> on, right? Like, when we focus on what's right with us instead of what's wrong with us then we're able to access all of those things, right? You're able to get up on your soapbox and preach, but like, listen, you, you already have 20 years experience as a psychotherapist, seven years specific experience counseling physicians. And then as a social worker, you already understand the systemic problems. So it's like, could there be a better resume of someone to provide, you know, a retreat for physicians? I think not.

Haylin Dennison (19:11):
And that's why I see, that's why everyone needs a coach. Cuz Susan just hypes me up like that and I'm like, like even the, do you remember the M T V thing? I was like, no, I don't wanna do that, blah blah blah. I don't wanna exploit this or that. And you're like, listen, just say yes and then we will, we will prep you and I will be able to change your mind before your, before your, your your show airs or whatever you said. And then you were able to really like, you know, Jedi mind trick me with my values. Like okay, Haylen, you're talking all this about how you want to influence the Asian American community and you wanna destigmatize mental health. You say that, right? So why wouldn't you get on this show and show that? And I'm like, okay, Susan, do you remember that?

Susan Hyatt (19:47):
Yes, I remember that because I was like, you better? Oh my God, you better go on M T V. Like just say yes

Haylin Dennison (19:55):
And that I know

Susan Hyatt (19:56):
Remember cuz that's exactly, it's like say yes to the opportunity and then we'll figure the rest out later. You can freak out after you say yes. Right? And then we will get you r perfectly ready and you did and you knock their socks off.

Haylin Dennison (20:13):
So I have to do that for, I have to have that same mindset for this and I have to, you know, go all in mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And I'm very passionate about it because you know, a lot of, a lot of the doctors that I see, like we just align so much and they also like come to, sometimes they come to the cafe, right? And they help with the teens and they just come to our events. It's just such a integrated community and I think that's so opposite of kind of what the healthcare system is where everything is kind of in silos.

Susan Hyatt (20:44):
Right. And so these physicians and this retreat that you wanna do for physicians, what's your vision in terms of like how many people would be perfect for it? You know, what kinds of things do you wanna do with them?

Haylin Dennison (21:01):
Yeah, I really was impacted by the most, and I think the magic that happens at like a business conference or retreat that way is that you're just exposed to people who think like you or maybe think like the way that you want to think, but you're not there yet. And that really happened for me at the most, it's not even like I had this great business idea or anything, but it was like understanding that I wanted to invest in myself and raise myself awareness. A lot of people were just not taught even as Asian, I guess, I guess, you know, I should say I'm Asian American and we're just not taught to prioritize exploring what we want. You know, it's really about what can you do for your family, you know, how can you be financially stable? How can you serve others? And I really still value those things, right?

(21:48):
But not at the cost of my own mental health or my own needs or my own wants. And that's still a journey that I have to go through. But I really credit my kid Maddie with teaching me how to do that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> teaching me how to understand that, you know, just because I was taught something doesn't mean that I need to repeat that. Just because I have this child doesn't mean that this child has to be exactly what I thought this child was gonna be. Right. To understand that these children, all of them are born through me, but they're not my property. And so they're not supposed to just do everything that I want them to do. And it's been really hard.

Susan Hyatt (22:25):
That is

Haylin Dennison (22:26):
Really hard.

Susan Hyatt (22:27):
Lemme tell her something I often joke with, with my clients who, I just did a retreat in Savannah and there was, there was a, a big wide range of ages, which I loved on this retreat. And there was one there was one retreat participant who has a like one year old, maybe even a little less than one. Oh my gosh. And oh my gosh. And, and there are struggles with being a brand new parent. And I was like, let me tell you something, these 20 somethings, I wish I could strap them into a car seat and like tell them how they, what they were gonna wear today. You know, like yeah. When you are a parent and learn hopefully that whatever your vision is for this person and whatever sort of rules you had for them need to go out the window because they are their own individual and you cannot control any of it, the better. But it is great it not for sissies. Okay. It is not for the week to be a parent

Haylin Dennison (23:32):
<Laugh>. Yeah. And also like that's the kind of thing that I wanna talk about at the retreat because there's so many physician mothers, right? And mm-hmm <affirmative>, I honestly feel that they haven't the hardest, you know, when I talk to them they're doing, again not all, but for the most part they are doing more household work. They are working way more hours, right. And then they feel like they're not being a good mom. There's just, and then they're not being a good physician, right. <Laugh> if they're not like charting at home and there's just a better way to do it. But it really does require a whole transformation of your thoughts, beliefs, boundaries and then unlearning like what I was talking about before, that Asian culture of oh well there's no way that I can disappoint my parents or there's no way that I can do something that's not like a physician, lawyer, engineer, right?

(24:25):
It's just those things or else I'm a failure <laugh>. So I'm trying to figure that out as well. But understanding how can we get to know ourself first and foremost and then understanding what are the other options you can do. But then most importantly I think just being able to have difficult conversations because in therapy training, right, it's very normal for all of us to get something called like clinical supervision. And that is for people who are not in the industry just at least once, once a week for a whole hour, you're processing transference, counter counter transference. That means like whatever, you know, we see a lot of trauma and so we cannot hold onto that trauma because it can come home with us, right? Like by just experience someone self-harming or suicide attempt, something like that. We're human. Like we process that every week. Physicians, they don't even debrief.

(25:16):
Like there's no such, they don't even have like a debrief after their first death or their right. There's an a, there's a miscarriage here and then there was like this patient they knew for three weeks and all of a sudden, right? And then they have all that guilt and shame. But in medicine, or I guess in phy physician culture, you hold it all in and you repress it. Whereas like in therapy culture or in mental health culture, for us as therapists, we process it and that's part of the requirements of getting our license. And so even implementing some of that into the system is gonna be like say I don't wanna wait for the system. Right? I can't wait till the hospitals start doing that. So let's create that here. And so they can, you know, just find, even if it's out of their state, they can meet by Zoom. But you know, three or four women physicians who are going through the same thing, they might not have time to meet once a week, but maybe once a month. Right. You know, where they can process.

Susan Hyatt (26:05):
Right.

Haylin Dennison (26:06):
And I wasn't sure, sorry Susan, I wasn't sure if you thought I had to do like a coaching program with this, right? Because I'm so all over the place that I'm like, well I don't want to do too much. But at the same time, like, is this possible in your opinion without the coaching, you know, and just having the retreats

Susan Hyatt (26:25):
Well that you could offer, you could have many different ways that you deliver this goodness to them. So there could be a one day thing, there could be a weekend thing, there could be a longer I don't know your vision for this, but there could be a longer deep dive in-person retreat thing. And any length of time that you do the in-person you could layer like a layer cake. You could have a V I P option that includes some one-on-one coaching with them. And you could reverse it. You could offer one-on-one coaching with them and then people who are really getting a lot out of that one-on-one coaching attention, you could then ask them, well, do you wanna come into community with other physicians so that you see that you're not so alone? So I, I'm not here to say like that they can't have transformation without one-on-one time cuz they absolutely can.

(27:28):
Right. And plenty of my clients do. But I think it's interesting to kind of assess there are some people who always want a do-it-yourself option. They wanna download something and be alone lone workers, right? Yes. Yes. And then there are the folks who absolutely are only gonna sign up if they can have one-on-one attention. And then there are folks who would never sign up for one-on-one attention cuz they don't want you looking at them that closely. Right. And that would only go for the group thing. So I think you could offer a layer cake of options and they could upgrade or choose a V I P option that includes coaching.

Haylin Dennison (28:16):
I like that. So that there's options for everyone. Yeah.

Susan Hyatt (28:19):
And it's just differences preferences, differences in learning style or differences in what's happening in their lifestyle at that moment. You know, some, some people when I offer retreats and trainings and things, there are some people who are like, gosh, if you ever, you know, offer this in a virtual way, I would love to participate, but I just can't get on a plane or I just can't travel right now because, and they may have a really legitimate reason, like they're caring for very small children or an ailing parent or whatever it might be, you know Right. Or they could, you know, have an illness that prevents them from traveling or whatever. So I think it could be interesting for you to play around with the offer and it might also be interesting to experiment with and see what, what a physician ideal client for you is gonna gravitate towards. You know, they, the thing that that might really change things for them is finding a weekend to unplug and go do your retreat.

Haylin Dennison (29:34):
Right. Absolutely. Yeah. And I was thinking a weekend kind of like the most, and you know, I don't, I don't, I haven't done done like a lot of research on these transformational retreats, but I just know that being exposed to people that you've never been exposed to with that mindset mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, it's so powerful. And I experienced that and I just was wondering if you ha, cause I know you do retreats mm-hmm. <Affirmative> I guess concretely what are those things that you can get out of the retreat that I can focus on that you can't get out of? Right. Because when you immerse yourself in that, like, I can't even explain what happened to me when I went to that retreat, but I will never be the same and I really will forever be, you know, indebted and, and grateful to you Rachel and Robert for that experience. Thank

Susan Hyatt (30:18):
You so much. You know, I think that you brought up a good point that I didn't, that there are certain things you can only do with people in person and that's part of the reason why I love retreat events and retreats and why I continue to do them. You know, because I think getting people out of their regular routine and out of their element and into a room like you're saying with people that it could be like one connection or conversation they have with someone not even you, that changes absolutely everything for them. And I know that just coming up fresh off of a retreat, you know, couple days ago

Haylin Dennison (31:02):
When I was Oh, how nice. When

Susan Hyatt (31:04):
It was so interesting watching the bonding and the connection that happened between people that wasn't there before just over zoom.

Haylin Dennison (31:15):
Right.

Susan Hyatt (31:15):
Right. And so I think that that's, that's a good point. So you know, when you so beautifully were able to name like the reasons why you're perfectly positioned to do this, I would say if you can keep reminding yourself of that and, and with the chronic need that's happening, the, the desperation that a lot of these physicians feel what do you think could happen potentially as the greatest benefit for someone attending this with you?

Haylin Dennison (31:53):
Well, I think for older physicians, I think it'll be a brand new perspective. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I think for the next generation of physicians, I think they already feel it. You know, and so there's sometimes I, I want to also teach the younger physicians to have compassion for the older physicians because Right. That is what they went through and probably worse. And that's like the feedback that I always get. So, you know, and it's, it's not different from what we say about our kids, right? Like generally like, oh, they're like snowflakes or whatever we say about them

Susan Hyatt (32:31):
<Laugh>. Right? Right.

Haylin Dennison (32:32):
And so we have to like cut that toxic kind of beliefs. And so I think for the older physicians, they, you know, they are leaving at an all time high right now. And so hopefully they can be fulfilled and I guess realigned with their, with their profession. And then maybe for the younger ones, I would want to inspire them to innovate, right? Because they are going to change the system mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. but they have to realize that they're leaders first instead of thinking that they're just followers or, you know, having to really please and perform all the time, you know, with two hours of sleep or whatever it is. It's like they're, i I want them to understand that it's okay to pave their own path. So I think,

Susan Hyatt (33:18):
Wow. Yeah, that's really beautiful. I didn't even think about the, the different ages of physicians, right? So if you're young, you wanna help them innovate. If they're older physicians, you wanna help them reconnect to why they got into this in the first place. So here's my final question for you. Do you have the luxury to go to sleep on this?

Haylin Dennison (33:46):
Unfortunately, no. I don't have the luxury <laugh> cause I have to make payroll <laugh>.

Susan Hyatt (33:52):
Well, you have to make payroll, but you also I know are are deeper and committed.

Haylin Dennison (33:57):
Absolutely.

Susan Hyatt (33:58):
And so listen, you don't listen, you do not have the option to not get up the nerve to do this.

Haylin Dennison (34:05):
Okay?

Susan Hyatt (34:06):
But you get to decide if it's gonna be terrible and you're gonna focus on imposter syndrome or if you're gonna focus on like all the reasons why, like, yes, I'm your hype woman, but cultivating that inner hype woman, like your new mindset about it. Like, fuck yeah, yeah, I've got all this experience, I understand the system, let's go.

Haylin Dennison (34:28):
Yeah. And like we don't have the luxury of waiting, like I, I know we're talking about me, but as a society, right? And the healthcare system, like it will really crumble if we don't start changing things. It's already crumbling and people are already suffering and our physicians are already dying, you know, two and a half times more than any other profession. And so, you know, I do have a deep passion for that and, and I think through this journey of just like personal coaching and business coaching that's one thing that I'm happy about is that the things that I do, they are all aligned with the values that I have. And so it's not just like, you know, there's some physicians out there, Susan, who just like, and I dunno doing some side gig like inve like, you know, real estate or this, and and it's not that that's a bad thing, but they're kind of looking for an escape. Like how can I retire early? Let me just do this side gig where you could actually do another side gig that is totally aligned with your values as a healer. And it's not like, oh I just need to do this real estate. Right? It's different if you love real estate, but they're kind of just saying, how can I get out of this cause I'm not able to pay my bills? And so giving them that option of freedom or, or of autonomy is I think the best gift I can, I can give. Hmm.

Susan Hyatt (35:44):
What a beautiful mission. And at per usual I am in awe of everything that you do.

Haylin Dennison (35:50):
Thank you Susan. So

Susan Hyatt (35:52):
How can people connect with you if they wanna follow this journey?

Haylin Dennison (35:55):
Absolutely. Thank you. I'm on Instagram at hal dennison lcsw and our website is halen dennison.com. I'm so excited. Well thank you. Thank you Susan

Susan Hyatt (36:07):
For giving me and the, you've got nerve audience a peak into where you're going. And listen, I'm gonna harass you and I'm gonna follow up with you and have you back on the show cuz we are gonna need

Haylin Dennison (36:20):
Updates. Okay? Absolutely. I'm doing it. Thank you Susan. Thank you so much.

Susan Hyatt (36:28):
If you want more confidence, more joy, more adventure and more opportunities, there are a few ways we can work together. So number one, you can get on the wait list for life of yes. So we've currently closed enrollment, but we'll be opening enrollment backup in a couple of months. So if you wanna get on on that, go to go dot susan hyatt.co/life of yes. We also have Irelands coming up May 20th through the 27th of this year. 2023. You can stay at a luxurious manner on the outskirts of Keani. So think Downton Abbey, the Irish edition take in the jaw-dropping scenery in epic adventures that Keani and the 125 miles of coastline on the Wild Atlantic way have to offer. You can check out Susan hyatt.co and go to the retreats page and check that out. We also have Morocco in 2023. Again, join me in October, 2023 for a lavish retreat in AmeriCash Morocco.

(37:36):
One of the most vibrant, mythical and surreal places in the Hulk world. And I'm almost sold out for Vietnam January, 2024. Planes, trains, boats, oh my god, life coaching, unforgettable meals, adventures and memories, including a luxury cruise crews attending the Epic Full Moon Lantern Festival and taking in the captivating beauty of multiple destinations throughout Vietnam. If you're ready to go all in and pursue your goals, then come on one-on-one coaching is probably the best option for you. I have two spots left for 2023 to work privately with me. And you can expect the ultimate pink carpet treatment and high-end results. Or you can get on the wait list as I mentioned, for the next round of life of yes, be the woman with the stories, not the regrets. Join life of yes, my year long program that'll help you take back your life, put yourself in your dreams first and reclaim your joy. Until the next episode, I'm wishing for you to get up all the nerve you need to go after everything you want.

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