Susan Hyatt:
Is there something you wish you had the nerve to do? Welcome to You've Got Nerve, the podcast that teaches you how to conquer your fears, upgrade your mindset, and get the nerve to go after whatever you want. If you wish you had the guts to go all in on your dreams and goals and desires, this show is for you. I am Master Certified Life Coach Susan Hyatt, and I am so excited for you to join me on this journey. Today's guest is my good friend, Melissa Cassera. She's a professional screenwriter with eight produced films and six more in development. Melissa also produces content for my company like our ridiculously fun holiday special. If you haven't seen it, we'll link to it in the show notes.

Susan Hyatt:
A few years ago, Melissa wrote a book manuscript with the dream of turning it into her first novel. It's an angsty romance about a group of people who can see the future and have the power to change it. She describes it as Twilight meets Gossip Girl, minus the vampires, and with all of her writing experience and incredible success you'd think that publishing a book would be totally possible for Melissa. And it is. Except, do you know where her manuscript is right now? Today? It's sitting in a sad basket under her desk. And when she texted me a photo of this, I screamed, y'all. No one should ever have a sad desk basket life. Let me ask you, have you ever dreamt of writing a book?

Susan Hyatt:
As the author of a bestselling book I can tell you that it feels incredible to hold a finished book in your hands. It's such a beautiful rush and flood of positive emotions. Melissa writes fiction, but if you're a coach or entrepreneur, writing a non-fiction book can be a really smart move for your business and open many doors for you. My book, Bare, has led to more clients, getting interviewed by the press, doing a TEDx talk, and other exciting opportunities. When you put a book out into the world, the possibilities for you are limitless, but unfortunately, a lot of people end up just like Melissa. Their book stays in manuscript form, never published, or it's half written on their laptop, or they don't even start writing at all.

Susan Hyatt:
If your dream is to write a book, I hope today's episode inspires you to write it, finish it, and publish it. The journey to bring a book into the world has its highs and lows, but it's so, so worth it. So I hope you enjoy being my fly-on-the-wall in today's coaching session with Melissa. Enjoy. Welcome to You've Got Nerve, Melissa Cassera.

Melissa Cassera:
Thank you so much. I'm excited and nervous.

Susan Hyatt:
What makes you the most nervous?

Melissa Cassera:
I think you're going to drag me, which is fine. That's what I'm here for, but, yeah, I need the tough love, but I'm just waiting for it because I think you're going to uncover the real reason that my script, I mean, sorry, my book manuscript, is sitting in a sad desk basket.

Susan Hyatt:
So, the desk basket that you've tossed your script in is sad. I mean, why would you treat your manuscript that way? What made you put it there?

Melissa Cassera:
Okay. So it was on top of my desk for probably about a year, untouched. And so it was like my coffee holder, essentially. Instead of putting a coaster down, I would just sit my coffee cups on top of it. And it was like-

Susan Hyatt:
How disrespectful.

Melissa Cassera:
Very disrespectful. And it was a daily reminder to me that I wasn't taking action on the script. And really, just as a very brief fact story, initially when I wrote this, the purpose was that I wanted something that I could control myself, that I had full creative control over. I write scripts for a living. There are no less than a dozen people that give you notes and things like that and kind of change the direction of what your intention was. That's not bad. It just means that when you're a screenwriter, you're a collaborator, right? Even if it's your original idea, even if it's your original words, things like that, you are collaborating with people who are putting the money in to have that work made. With this novel my intention was, I kind of just wanted something for me without outside voices to come in.

Melissa Cassera:
And so I wrote it with a book coach. It was really fun the journey of writing it. My intention the whole time was to self-publish because, again, I wanted that control. I wanted to do the cover myself. I want all the bits and bobs to be just me. My book coach was like, "This is so good, though, and with your writing experience, you really should try to get an agent because I think they would love you." And so instead of listening to my own intuition and got what I originally wanted, I thought, "Oh, why not? Let me go down that path. I mean, she's right. There might be someone who's interested in representing this work." And I think that was my huge mistake, and ironically enough the book itself is called Control. That's the title. And I was giving up all of my control to these agents and really that's where everything went wrong because I got some feedback that I took, I guess, way too personally, and I can help with [inaudible 00:06:00]-

Susan Hyatt:
What was the feedback?

Melissa Cassera:
Okay. So of course I got a bunch of noes. That was fine and that doesn't bother me. That happens with scripts all the time. There was two pieces of feedback that really stuck with me, and stick with me now and make me very hesitant to put this out in the world. So one piece was... This was actually in a discussion I had with multiple people in the industry, not just one agent. It was a few different agents and a few publishers that were in the YA romance space. And their take was basically, if you are writing about sex when it comes to teenagers, if there's any sexy themes, period.

Melissa Cassera:
Mind you, I have no sex in my book. It's actually something that can't happen much like Twilight, where Edward will kill her if they have sex. I have a similar sort of trope. So there is no actual sex, okay? But their thing was, "We don't want any more sex in books that are intended for teenagers because teenagers shouldn't have sex and we should..." I'm just like, "That is so opposite from my high school experience," and they basically said-

Susan Hyatt:
Wait, I just have to interject that that's so unrealistic in the world. Like, do they know any teenagers?

Melissa Cassera:
I mean, I'm very curious. I assume that they do, but maybe their wish or hope is that they wouldn't be exposed to this or see this or whatever. But as we know, this is normal and happens and goes on. And so essentially what scared me most about that conversation was they said, "If you are alluding to sex, having any sexual themes, our belief is that it's pedophilia." And so, that's a pretty harsh word to levy at an author, and that made me very worried. That was actually fixable because I thought about, "Well, why don't I just age my book up to college anyway? Because then I get rid of that, and there really is no reason it needs to be set in high school." So I got rid of that and that was okay.

Melissa Cassera:
It was the next piece that really threw me. There was an agent who was interested, requested a full read, and she got back to me and was like, "This book was very triggering for me, and the sexual assault and abuse there..." This is not in my book. At all. I went back and read it four times because I'm like, "Did I miss something that I wrote?" And she's like, "I think this should be an abuse story about a girl who goes through this horrific experience and then it's everything she has to deal with. It shouldn't be romance. People don't need romance anymore. They need these deep topical issues." And I was so thrown because, first of all, it didn't sound like my book at all.

Melissa Cassera:
I don't know if she conflated it with another book, but I think I got worried again and it was like looped in with that earlier conversation of like, "No sex, this, that," that freaked me out. And I just thought, "Am I going to put this out in the world and people are going to be triggered and horrified and just hate this?" The last thing I want to do is cause harm and pain for people. I personally think this is a very light book. It's like a very guilty pleasure romance read, but then I'm like, "Am I missing something?" Anyway, so that's the backstory and it keeps stopping me. Every time I go back to it, that will come in my brain, one of their pieces of feedback, and I'm like, "Ugh. Oh, no. What if someone is upset?"

Susan Hyatt:
Right. What if a reader is upset? So after that piece of feedback, you put it on your desk and used it as a cup holder.

Melissa Cassera:
That's right.

Susan Hyatt:
Or like a coaster. And then coaster moments led to when you would see it, what kind of feeling would you get?

Melissa Cassera:
Oh, I would be disgusted. I would look down at it and I would go, "Ugh." And then eventually I started piling books on it. Then there were a few times where Gary would come in and he'd be like, "Do you want to put this somewhere? Do you want to do something with this?" So I'm like, "No."

Susan Hyatt:
Don't touch it. It's dangerous.

Melissa Cassera:
Yeah. Look, I was being called out for it, but that's not what he was meaning at all. He's like, "Do you just want this to be in a nicer place that doesn't look so ugly all stacked up on your desk?"

Susan Hyatt:
Right. And then it went from there to the basket.

Melissa Cassera:
Sad desk basket. Yes. Which lives under my desk, so I just shoved it. I think it was around January 1st of this year. I was like... And I just shoved it in the basket.

Susan Hyatt:
The book is called Control, and you believe that it's a light romance.

Melissa Cassera:
It's Twilight meets Gossip Girl. That's how I describe it. It's like a private school setting with people that have supernatural powers.

Susan Hyatt:
Oh.

Melissa Cassera:
Yeah. And it's fun. Very guilty pleasure. Like I said, there's really not too many dark themes in it. I don't know. I've had test readers. None of them came back with anything that was harmful or triggering to them. Like I said, I had a book coach. Yeah. So all this stuff is in line.

Susan Hyatt:
Who's your favorite character in Control?

Melissa Cassera:
Oh, that's a hard one because my three leads are so good. It's a love triangle. Yeah.

Susan Hyatt:
Who has the coolest superpower?

Melissa Cassera:
Well, I might give it away. I would say my lead. So my lead gal, Natalie, has secret superpowers that are being uncovered. So it's an uncovering power story.

Susan Hyatt:
Oh.

Melissa Cassera:
If that makes sense. Yeah.

Susan Hyatt:
I wonder what the uncovering superpower for you is.

Melissa Cassera:
Hmm.

Susan Hyatt:
So Natalie has this superpower that's being uncovered. What is she able to do that's the most shocking?

Melissa Cassera:
Well, let me think. What's most shocking that she can do? Well, she can control space and time. As she uses her powers, they grow. That's the, I don't know, like the trope behind it, I guess. It's like, once you unlock one power, you can start to unlock others. So she has inhuman strengths, essentially, and ends up being the one to tear everything down and save the day. But, yeah, she could do a lot of things, but what she is could also be used for evil, too. So it could be used for good or evil, but she just uses it for good. So, yeah.

Susan Hyatt:
Right. And so something that's intriguing about this Natalie is that when she unlocks her superpower, it multiplies. And so I'm wondering, when you took advice from these random folks, it's like their negativity multiplied. Their negative opinion multiplied. They had these wrong ideas about your work that you allowed to take over to the point that it became a coaster. It now lives in a basket. And if you think about, "Okay, if I'm going to really have the creative control that I want, what needs to happen in defiance of these opinions?" Like, what do you need to think instead of, "This is disgusting. This might trigger people." What might it also do?

Melissa Cassera:
Inspire people, or make them excited, or give them a beautiful reprieve from an escape, from everything going on in the world and just get lost in a book. I truly believe that books allow you to escape to this awesome fantasy world and just have a nice pleasurable day. And, yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I was allowing them to multiply their powers and giving it too much weight and giving away all of my power, which was the initial intention of this project, was to take back my power, because I give a lot of it away in collaborative projects, or you try your best not to of course, right? A lot of it is arguing your points for every word on the page. That's fine because that's a career I chose. But for this, the intention was always, "I want full power here so that it's something that just feels wholly me, fully me."

Melissa Cassera:
Maybe there's a bit part that is scared of that, because I think it's like... So for example, if I put out a movie and I really don't pay much attention to critics anyway, but I think there is something underlying there that if something goes wrong, if it's not well received, if it doesn't get good ratings, there were a lot of voices in that mix. There's a lot of people. It takes over a hundred people to get a movie made, right? So that's sort of the, for lack of a better word, fault, of everyone. It's the collaborative effort. If you put something out that's only you, there's no collaboration, and then that doesn't go well. I think I have a fear that like, "Uh-oh, that's going to be 100% on me." It wasn't like a group of us can get together and kind of lean on each other and say, "Hey, what went wrong? How can we fix that next time?" It feels very isolated and alone.

Susan Hyatt:
Well, so what if it is, though? What if you put Control out and the reviews aren't good? What do you make that mean?

Melissa Cassera:
I don't think it needs to mean anything because funny enough I usually don't bother with reviews. That's the funny part, is like, "It's all this-

Susan Hyatt:
I remember asking you, "How are the reviews for your latest movie?" And you're like, "I don't bother with those."

Melissa Cassera:
Right. We just look at ratings. We don't care about the reviews. So, yeah, I'm not a big review person in general and I don't actually think on the other side that would bother me. I think it's all this story that I'm telling myself in my head and maybe it's just an easy way for me to hide behind like, "Oh, I will care about what people think. I will care about those reviews," even though I prove that wrong every day in my other writing.

Susan Hyatt:
You don't.

Melissa Cassera:
Right. But it's easier for me to lie.

Susan Hyatt:
Okay, so-

Melissa Cassera:
Lie to myself.

Susan Hyatt:
Right. And so it's a convenient lie. Why do you want it, though? Why do you want that as a crutch?

Melissa Cassera:
I think I'm just scared to put this out. There's definitely some kind of fear of putting this out.

Susan Hyatt:
So, if it's not reviews... Like you don't care what the reviews say. What's scary about it?

Melissa Cassera:
The only thing I keep coming back to in my mind is, again, that feedback and feeling like I'm going to do harm to someone. And I had an author say to me the other day that like, "You have to trust that your book will land with the right audience, but it's also going to land with the wrong audience, and you can't control someone else's experience with your words. You can try your best. You can have the sensitivity read, you can do all those things that are good to do, but ultimately you can't."

Melissa Cassera:
And when she said that, I was like, "Oh, that's really true because I'm a people pleaser by nature," and I've worked really hard on that in therapy and something that will come up maybe every few months or six months or something is like, my therapist will say, "Melissa, you can't control other people's experience of you. You just can't." And so I think this is maybe falling back into a pattern of people pleasing in a way. I don't want to do harm to people, but maybe there's also that underlying bit of like, "There's something about this project I'm hinging a lot of old patterns and behaviors on and falling into that people pleasing mode."

Susan Hyatt:
And so what if, if you're recognizing that, like, "Okay, I'm trying to control the reader's experience with a book called Control." It's so... Right? We're so hilarious as humans. It's like, "I can allow myself to express myself creatively and also allow the reader's experience to be their creative process and how they interpret it, and let go of any attachment. We don't care about their review." This is so interesting. You don't care about their review. You're worried about their actual experience and that their digestion of the words-

Melissa Cassera:
Yes.

Susan Hyatt:
... is the way you intended.

Melissa Cassera:
Yeah. And it's like, even if they come out of that and say, "Ah, this book wasn't for me," or, "I didn't really like that." That doesn't bother me because I understand everyone has different tastes. It's the experience of not reading it and being like, "Oh, that was such a waste of my time. That hurt me. That made me upset. That made me..." That kind of stuff is what I think I'm trying to control. And truly, you can't, right? Look, I understand logically that I can't, but I'm struggling to move past that.

Susan Hyatt:
It also reminds me of how, when we try to, whether it's overeating or overshopping or drinking, or whatever it might be, trying to numb out negative feeling states, then we also numb out joy and pleasure and passion and all of those things. We just become numb. And so by putting the manuscript in the sad basket and it's like, "Okay, you're preventing people from potentially having a terrible reader's experience," right? But you're also preventing your ideal reader from being so delighted. And so then the question is, can you allow the discomfort that comes up with self-publishing or continuing down the publishing path? Can you allow that discomfort to exist and no longer be disgusted by the prospect of so... You're like, "I'm just going to ahead and feel everyone's advanced disgust."

Melissa Cassera:
That's right.

Susan Hyatt:
Just allow me to take all your disgust on-

Melissa Cassera:
Yes. That's-

Susan Hyatt:
... by staring at this coaster.

Melissa Cassera:
That's accurate. Yes. That's what I am doing. But, yes, I can get to the place where I'm not doing that. And I think you also hit on something I hadn't thought about before, which is the numbing out and it's not even just the people who will be experiencing the book. But I think that's a bit me. I'm pretty even-tempered and in some ways, and this is something I learned through you, that is a bit detrimental and we shouldn't be doing. But one thing I've done to survive in a very male-dominated industry, where I mean, it's often that I'm the only woman on a project when it comes to a movie, is I strip emotions out of everything.

Melissa Cassera:
So when I have meetings, it's very cut-and-dry. I'm very direct. I don't take bullshit, but I also don't show emotion because that tends to work better and I get my point across better. But something I've realized through you is, that also means that I'm managing the emotions of the men that I'm in the room with, right? Because-

Susan Hyatt:
Right.

Melissa Cassera:
... if I know that if I get angry or if I'm like, "No, this, this," that goes over better than if I'm like, "Are you kidding me? No." And just have a normal reaction or emotion. And so, again, that's me doing this emotional work and labor to drive that and almost manipulate it to my own advantage to make sure that my words stay on the page.

Susan Hyatt:
Well, it's all right. It's the invisible workload at work. And now part of your invisible workload in your backpack is managing readers' reaction.

Melissa Cassera:
Yeah. And also my own, because I think for the past seven years, learning to be very emotionless, in a sense, particularly in a professional setting, has kind of made me numb in other ways. And I've really noticed that in my life. I'm like, "Oh, I don't really..." I used to be so... For example, I have a podcast with my girlfriend, Alex. And if you go back and listen to that, my tone, my whole overall being is completely different than how I am today. And it's interesting and it's almost shocking because I feel like that's a totally different person, but I still am that person inside.

Susan Hyatt:
My feet are sweating. Just so you know, my feet are sweating, okay? So, let me get this straight. So you are taking on the part-time job of managing these men's emotions and the result of that is that you have numbed the passion and the fire and the obsessed nature of Melissa Cassera?

Melissa Cassera:
Yes. In certain ways, yes. Which I think directly relates to this book because I used to be so excited about this book that I would want to do nothing else but sit down and write it, and now I'm at a point that I'm so disgusted by it, it goes into a basket. And so I wonder if part of me is thinking back to, subconsciously, knowing that this book brought me such joy and like literal goose bumps. I used to be like, "Oh, my God." I would make soundtracks for it and envision scenes, and it was the most exciting thing. And to know that now, Susan, I can't even listen to the playlist I made for this book, because that-

Susan Hyatt:
Okay, that is... Wait a minute. Okay. First of all, that's your homework, is to listen to that and maybe make a new playlist, a current playlist for this book. And what needs to happen in order for you to drop this emotional labor, this invisible workload? We got to have Melissa back. I mean, how else is it impacting your life? It's got your manuscript in a sad fucking basket. What else is going on where we are watering down our Melissa experience?

Melissa Cassera:
Yes. Well, I'm certainly getting better in a professional sense on that since realizing that I'm doing that. I'm no longer showing up in meetings or things like that, and I would say this has only been the past month or so that I've really just been... Like have a fuck-it attitude. And I just say what I want to say in the way that I want to say it, and no longer feel that filter. And that is helping, for sure. I'm noticing it that then outside of that I'm feeling more joy and feeling more excitement to do the things that I used to do that I loved, whether it's taking fun trips with friends or dancing or whatever it is. I haven't quite made it to the book yet, but that's where I'm trying to lead it to. But I never actually really thought about the correlation until you said it, the correlation between the numbing out and the book, how that probably has a lot to do with this issue.

Susan Hyatt:
We need... This is like operation Goose Bump Melissa. We need goosies. We need a pleasure checklist of goose bump moments that need to happen for you. And also, I just want to say, having a fuck-it attitude is a good start, but I think there's more there. I think what, and you can tell me where I'm wrong, but I think the goal is like, "No, no, no, full dose of Melissa," which is less fuck-it and more what? Like if we were to go back and listen to that podcast, and I have listened to that podcast, it's less fuck-it. You're like cotton candy.

Melissa Cassera:
Yeah. Yeah.

Susan Hyatt:
You know what I mean? You're effervescent. It's like that you have been someone to be obsessed with what you're obsessed with. That's what we talk about. So-

Melissa Cassera:
Yeah.

Susan Hyatt:
... if you were going to become re-obsessed with this book, what would that look like?

Melissa Cassera:
I think I need to do some of the initial things that I did to even get obsessed with this. So the way that the book came about was, it was an old, old idea. It was my very first script. That was a gem of an idea, but written in a much different way. This is a weird story, but one day... I like listening to epic remixes of pop songs. I do not know why, but this is one of my favorite things to do. And I was listening to this epic remix of Hit Me Baby One More Time from Britney.

Susan Hyatt:
Yes.

Melissa Cassera:
So it was this guy singing and it's just this epic swelling score, and I was like, "Oh," and I had this vision of that idea that I had as set in a private school setting and everything. Like the scenes were just appearing in my mind, and it was like, "Whoa." Sometimes the power of a song will do that. Oftentimes it will do that. So it's a mix of that and a mix of... I was taking in media and entertainment that I wasn't used to. I was in a big Turkish soap opera-like phase where I was finding them online, and I just found them so intriguing how culturally they need to do things differently than we do here because of TV restrictions.

Melissa Cassera:
But I also almost found it kind of sexier and more fun in a way. And so I took a lot of inspiration from that. And then, yeah, and just got into the zone. I would set aside specific time for this. I was really good at that. Like, "This is my book writing time." I did a lot of it in coffee shops and other places that weren't just my desk. So there's all these things I know work and I simply have not done them.

Susan Hyatt:
Hmm. So, if you were to change from thinking, "This could potentially harm someone," to, "Not publishing this harms me," or, "I can only control my creative expression and I can allow other people to read it or not read it and have their own experience and let go of the attachment to saving folks."

Melissa Cassera:
Yeah. That's true.

Susan Hyatt:
It's interesting because now that I know a little bit more about this story, I want to read this story. And so, if you imagine the book published, if you think about holding that book in your hands, what's the overall sensation you get?

Melissa Cassera:
Oh, my God, excitement. I can picture it because I picture how I want the cover. I know what I want to do for the book trailer. I have an actress who did one of my movies that isn't out yet and is awesome, and I picture her as my lead. And so to have her in the trailer and I already know exactly how that's going to be shot and what she's going to wear and it's going to be super epic and dramatic. Yeah. That makes me very excited to think of these end pieces, for sure. And I think maybe the one thing holding me back, too, which I didn't mention, was I do need to get a line edit and a proofread, which is very common for books, right?

Melissa Cassera:
I definitely want to do that before I put it out so that we don't have grammar and spelling errors. And there's this part of me that thinks the editor that I hire is going to give me the same feedback as the other people did, and that I'm going to harm the editor. I can't get this out of my head and it's a crucial step that needs to happen and can happen within even a month probably, I can pass this off and it's like, "Ugh, but what if they feel triggered and harmed?"

Susan Hyatt:
And what if they do?

Melissa Cassera:
Yeah. I mean, I think that's the question. And the answer is, "I can't control their experience." I've already done everything possible to make sure that, if there's trigger warnings needed, we have the trigger warnings, right? I've done that part. So, yeah, I mean, I can't control their experience with it. And truly their job, right? I mean, my job is upfront to explain in a couple of paragraphs, here's what the book is. If they're not interested, they can say "no", but if they take on the job, their job is to edit the book.

Susan Hyatt:
Right. Right. I mean-

Melissa Cassera:
So-

Susan Hyatt:
... and, when you were talking about just picturing what you would do for the movie trailer and how excited you got, it reminds me of David Letterman has season three out of My Next Guest Needs No Introduction. And Billie Eilish was interviewed and I thought it was so awesome how he was asking her about her obsession with creating music videos, when, you know, like in today's world music videos aren't the thing that sells music. I mean, music videos are still made, but it's not like, "I'm a Gen Xer when MTV was around," right?

Susan Hyatt:
And she was like... Listen, she's producing and directing her own music videos, and she was like, "I would rather not make music than not produce these videos. I love it so much." And so I feel that way about certain pieces of my work that don't make sense to regular marketing consultants. Like, why would you do that? And it's like, "I would rather not be a life coach if I can't do things like You've Got Nerve, or do these retreats, or do whatever." And you have that same obsessive sort of quality about your work. And so my question is, can you challenge yourself to think about, "I would rather not write than not be able to produce this work independently regardless of feedback."

Melissa Cassera:
Yes.

Susan Hyatt:
You're like, "Yeah, I'm in."

Melissa Cassera:
Yes. I can do that. Yes. I like that reframe of like, I'd rather stick thumbtack in my eyes than not, because I always have to go to the dark space, than not put this into the world. And I agree. It's so fun, and friends like Alex, for example, who were in this from the beginning where I used to send her chapter after chapter and she was like, "When is the next chapter coming?" And that's the feeling that really was incredible in those early phases.

Susan Hyatt:
Right. And for those of you who don't know, our friend, Alex Franzen, is probably, along with you, Melissa, one of the most gifted writers, book publishers that I've ever met, and you already have a book publisher and prolific writer of multiple books saying, "When's the next chapter?" And so, isn't it interesting? It's like, "So, let's turn towards the feedback that matters and decide to release the hounds. Let's get this book out into the world." So, I guess my homework for you, Melissa Cassera, would be to hire your editor.

Melissa Cassera:
Okay.

Susan Hyatt:
Work out the schedule for filming this book trailer, hire this actress, and then the other thing is, can you print out a fresh copy of this manuscript and give it a beautiful home in the meantime, that's like obsessive quality. Like it's elevated to Billie Eilish standards?

Melissa Cassera:
Yes. And Billie Eilish is all over my playlist. Yeah. Funny.

Susan Hyatt:
Really?

Melissa Cassera:
Oh, yeah. I think probably-

Susan Hyatt:
Okay.

Melissa Cassera:
... the first song that I even picked was a Billie Eilish song because she's so [inaudible 00:37:21]-

Susan Hyatt:
Okay.

Melissa Cassera:
... and tortured and fun.

Susan Hyatt:
Listen, it's meant to be. So if you're going to be like, "I've got nerve," right? Like, you've got nerve. What's the nerviest thing you can do for this book?

Melissa Cassera:
Publish it.

Susan Hyatt:
Oh, shit. Out, Melissa Cassera, we need you not numbing out.

Melissa Cassera:
Yes. This is true. No more excuses or numbing out. Absolutely. Get my joy back. My goose bumps. I like what you said better than joy. Goose bumps. Goose bumps, Melissa.

Susan Hyatt:
Goose bumps moments. We're not accepting, and I will be messaging Gary. We are not accepting-

Melissa Cassera:
Oh, no.

Susan Hyatt:
Yeah. We're getting Gary in on this action.

Melissa Cassera:
No, because then he will never let up.

Susan Hyatt:
I love it. He's my accomplice. But we are never, ever going to allow a numbed out, dulled down, lukewarm, Melissa Cassera, ever again.

Melissa Cassera:
Okay.

Susan Hyatt:
You've got nerve.

Melissa Cassera:
Thank you.

Susan Hyatt:
Thank you for listening or watching today's episode of You've Got Nerve. I hope this episode has inspired you to get the courage and confidence to go after whatever you want. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review it on Spotify, iTunes, wherever you're listening. Your reviews mean the world to me, and when you review the podcast, we have the potential to reach more people who want to get up the nerve to create whatever they crave and become unstoppable.

Susan Hyatt:
Is there something you need the nerve to do? The first step is saying "yes" to yourself, "yes" to what you want, "yes" to whatever it is that you crave. And here's the great news. I have so many programs available to you to help you create the nerve to build your dreams. First, we have masterminds. The ON THE SIX mastermind is for entrepreneurs who want to create a business set up the foundations to reach their first six figures. We also have a higher level mastermind for entrepreneurs who have already established systems and their business foundation, and want to scale to multiple six figures to seven figures. We also have international retreats, revenue retreats, programs where my community and my team helps you build everything you've ever wanted.

Susan Hyatt:
So I hope you're excited for the next episode of You've Got Nerve. But if you don't want to wait a whole week, you can also get motivational texts from me to help you gain more courage and confidence in your life. Just text me at 812-408-1823. And, hey, if you've got a question for me, we're adding some special Q&A episodes of You've Got Nerve in the near future and we're looking for listeners to participate. You can send a voice message of your question by visiting youvegotnervepodcast.com. That's all for today's episode of You've Got Nerve. Now it's time to go and get what you want. More confidence, more money, more energy, more pleasure, go after your goals like never before, because You've Got the Nerve.