Welcome to the Rich Coach Club, the podcast that teaches you how to build your dream coaching practice and how to significantly increase your income. If you're a coach and you're determined to start making more money, this show is for you. I'm master certified life coach Susan Hyatt, and I'm psyched for you to join me on this journey.
Hey coaches. Are you feeling discouraged because your coaching practice isn’t generating very much money yet, or maybe no money at all? This episode is for you. I have some words that you need to hear, and this is going to be a pep talk with a dash of tough love and it might sting a little, but you’re going to thank me later. Here we go.
So once upon a time, I was scrolling on social media and I saw a post from a fellow coach and this particular coach basically said coaching is a beautiful profession. As a coach, you can really make a difference in people’s lives. But don’t quit your day job because it’s very unlikely that coaching will provide an income for you.
She basically wrote go follow your passion and be a coach, yay, just don’t expect to make any money doing it. I’m kind of paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it. And I saw this post and it really annoyed me. I felt like this is a very pessimistic message to be sharing with the world. Really unhelpful.
I want to share a different message with you. One that is honest, truthful, but also productive. So look, the harsh reality is that 80% of new businesses fail within the first 18 months. 80% shut down usually because the business owner’s not making enough money to keep going. And then 20% succeed.
And that’s not just the coaching businesses. That’s all businesses. Those are the numbers; those are the facts. But you get to choose how you respond to those facts. You can whine and moan about how depressing it all is, or you get to roll up your sleeves and get to work.
You can choose to be part of that top 20%. That’s the choice I had to make when I started my first business in residential real estate, and that’s the same choice I made when I started my second business as a life coach. In both cases, people constantly warned me about how tough it was going to be.
People said, “Don’t do that, there’s so much competition and only the top 20% are making any money at all.” And I decided, okay fine, no problem. I’ll just make sure that I’m part of that top 20%. I’ll do whatever it takes to ensure that this happens.
So I committed fully. I was and still am all in. No half-assery. With both of my businesses, I chose to behave like a pro. And this meant holding regular business hours, handing out business cards, calling and emailing to introduce myself to potential clients. Putting myself out there even especially when it felt scary.
Showing up consistently. That’s what it means to commit. And also, I made sure to surround myself with winners and not whiners. I wanted to know who are the people in the top 20% of my industry and what are they actually doing every day? How are they finding clients? What are their daily habits? I want to hang with these people and learn from them.
So I found mentors who had created admirable lives and businesses and watched them closely. And I took responsibility for my own success. When I started out in real estate, one of my mentors said that when the market is down, that’s when the amateurs tend to quit.
And after all, amateur agents love to blame the market. The broker, the weather, or the holiday season for slow sales. They blame the economy, they blame the pandemic, they blame something, someone. For them, it’s always somebody else’s fault and they never take responsibility for their own failure or success.
It’s so easy to blame other people or external forces like the economy when you’re not getting the results that you wanted. Blaming keeps you safe because you never have to face your own demons or learn any uncomfortable lessons.
It’s really easy to point the finger and say, “Oh, my web designer totally flaked on me and that’s why I haven’t been able to move forward,” or, “My last assistant was a total disaster. That’s why I’ve been stuck.” “I hired a consultant who turned out to be awful. No wonder I haven’t booked any clients.”
Guess what? Nobody is running your business except you. The people in the top 20%, they’re not blaming anybody for anything. They’re too busy making power moves and making money and serving their clients and savoring the sweet taste of success.
Claim 100% responsibility for your actions and your outcomes. Now is the moment to decide what it’s going to be. Bottom 80% or top 20% in any industry, in any economy. The choice is up to you. I know this episode might seem blunt or even harsh, but I am telling you this because it might be exactly what you need to hear right now and maybe hearing these words is exactly the reminder you need.
And maybe this will motivate you to bust a move and do something you’ve been stalling on. Start figuring out what you need to do to ensure that you’re part of the top 20% of your industry. If you have no idea, then hire a business coach like me or join a group or take a class and get the education you need.
Be part of that top circle that is doing meaningful, fulfilling work, and making money doing it. I’m in that circle, my clients are in that circle too. There’s room for you too. Our circle can expand. Take responsibility for creating the results that you want and like I often say to my clients, don’t be mad about the results you didn’t get from the work you didn’t do. Okay, pep talk complete.
Alright, it’s time for community wins and this is the part of the show where I occasionally share wins, victories, beautiful accomplishments from my clients and from members of the Rich Coach Club Facebook group. These are the kinds of people who are determined to be in that top 20% and they’re not just thinking about it. They’re taking action and making it happen.
And today, I want to give a special shout-out to today’s interview guest, Hillary Weiss. So Hillary, as she talks about in this episode, is a one-on-one client of mine. And I’ve known her since she was in her first three months of business, and she just cleared her first $100,000 month. $100,000 month. Amazing. Congratulations to you boo-berry, that is amazing.
And hey, if you need a cool group of women to hang with, come on over to my free group, Rich Coach Club. It’s on Facebook, it’s free to join. If you just search Susan Hyatt’s Rich Coach Club on Facebook, you can find the link in the show notes. Get in here, we’d love to have you in our club.
Oh hey, I want to ask you a favor. So on Apple Music, the Rich Coach Club podcast currently has 197 reviews and that is flipping amazing. Thank you everyone who has reviewed the show. So I set a personal goal for myself to hit 300 reviews by March 1st and this is a big stretch goal, but I really want to hit it.
So if you love this show, if you look forward to seeing a new episode drop every Sunday, if this boosts your mood or helps get your ass in gear, then please go post a review. It would really mean so much to me and my team.
And then after you post a review, email my team, firstname.lastname@example.org, tell us you posted it because we pick a few people each month that we send prizes to. I mean, you might get a Go Time planner, you might get a sparkly crown. Yes, for real. So help us hit that goal of 300 reviews. Thank you oh so much.
Okay, it’s interview time and Hillary Weiss, our guest today is definitely in the top 20%. She is an amazing entrepreneur who I have watched go from copywriter to creative director. She has a standout brand, she is an amazing human, I freaking love her, and I can’t wait for you to experience her brilliance. This is such a juicy topic. Let’s dive right in.
Susan: So Hillary Weiss, welcome to the Rich Coach Club podcast.
Hillary: Oh my gosh, thank you. So happy to be here. So excited.
Susan: I can’t believe I haven’t ever had you on the show.
Hillary: I mean, no hard feelings but I can’t believe it either. We’ve known each other so long, seriously, OG status. I remember when your opt in was a chance to win a Vitamix blender and the brand was about getting lucky.
Susan: It was, and it’s still about getting lucky on purpose. It really is. And what did you write for me back then?
Hillary: I think I wrote some blog posts for you. And I think - I just remember this so well because I’ve been referred to you obviously from Alexandra and I just remember being like, I really want to impress this woman because she’s doing stuff out here on these internet streets.
And I ghost-wrote a few blog posts for you and I think your reply was, “I love these. That’s spooky, how did you do that? They sound just like me.” And I was like, yes, I’m validated. This was first year of business like, probably my first three months. That’s how early this goes back.
Susan: Wow. I do think you wrote something for Scott. I’m going to find it. I am going to find it and I’m going to post it on the internet and tag you.
Hillary: Back when I was a copywriter.
Susan: And then I’m going to host a new clubhouse room and read it to anyone who wants to come.
Hillary: A fine vintage aged HC Weiss, let’s see how it lasts.
Susan: So I have had the pleasure obviously, first three months in business, I have had the pleasure of knowing you since the beginning and have watched your business and brand become mature. And not only because you’re so talented but because you are a damn fine human being. And so we were giggling the other day about - you referred to it as what?
Hillary: The entrepreneurial emo phase.
Susan: The entrepreneurial emo phase, which I cannot stop cackling about that because everyone goes through it. And so for those of you listening who might be in this phase or maybe have grown through this phase, define for the good people listening what that would be.
Hillary: Okay. I want to couch this in just a quick qualifier that I think this is actually a really important phase to go through. I’ll explain why in a few minutes. I’ve been through it, I’m sure you’ve been through it. It is part of the growth process and it’s necessary because it’s a time when you start having a lot of important conversations.
So I don’t want to shame anybody for being like, “I’m emo. It’s not a phase, mom.” But I think that - so the entrepreneurial emo phase, there’s this pattern that happens in online business, especially I think business in general and entrepreneurship but I’ll tell you why I call it an emo phase in a minute.
But you start in the online business world and I know this happened to me and maybe it happened to you and you kind of look around, especially in the women’s space, especially if you’re coaching and creativity adjacent like I was and like you were. And I looked around and I was like, oh my god, what is this incredible woman-led industry? They care about so many things, they’re so positive, they’re so exciting, this is so much fun, and look at all these amazing inspiring writers and oh my god, how did I get here? What is going on? I worship you?
Like Marie Forleo, Jen Laporte, this is amazing. And Susan Hyatt. And it’s usually around I want to say two to three years in, you work with bigger name clients or you start climbing the ladder and you realize in some ways that the emperor has no clothes. So all of a sudden you start realizing that these big name voices might have some serious problems going on publicly or in the backend of their teams.
You start hearing horror stories from clients who are like, I paid this amount of money and got no results and then there was no refund and she said this, this, and this. And you start taking in all this information and especially for me as a copywriter, back when I did that, I likened it to being on the inside of a hull of a ship. Everyone sees the Carnival Princess or whatever…
Susan: We are not a Carnival Princess, Hillary Weiss. We are not a Carnival brand. We are the Queen Mary 2.
Hillary: There we go. So you’re on the Queen Mary 2 and you’re kind of inside the ship and you see how all the things work and you get - especially as a copywriter, because you’re in the thick of all the strategy and you’re doing things and you realize like, oh my god, I’m being worked so hard, these organizations are shit shows, they’re trying this strategy and it’s supposed to work and it doesn’t, oh my god.
So you enter the emo phase. And similarly to when it’s an emo phase when you're a kid where you start realizing that capitalism is a thing, and that racism continues to be real and maybe there’s something wrong with pop music and I love rock and roll kind of thing. And you start running kind of counter to the conversation going on in the industry.
So the reason why I call it the emo phase is it is really a phase where you feel kind of like everything’s bullshit. And you start looking around and you’re like, no one is real, nothing is real, I see all these stories and all these people with their successful money and they’re not listing - there’s so much more to the story than that and all these things, which are actually true.
And this is a really important realization to have because you don’t want to be in the online business world all starry-eyed because that gets you into a place where you feel like everyone’s better than you. You get to this zone and you start realizing that people are people.
Susan: People are people.
Hillary: They are indeed, which is heartbreaking sometimes. And I think that for me, when I went through my entrepreneurial emo phase, I went ham creating content. I was mad. So I started creating a lot of pieces where I took a counterargument. Because of the timing of it, I was kind of having a conversation that wasn’t really being had publicly.
So I got a lot of views, a lot of recognition, a lot of accolades and I was like, yeah, I’m speaking truths to power and everything. But again, I’m so grateful because would I walk everything back that I said then? Absolutely not. But I think that in that era, there was - I didn’t realize how much I didn’t know about how much I didn’t know about growth.
When you cross that 100K for a creative service provider was like, solid gold standard, top 1%, that’s amazing. But then it’s like, what does a 250K, 500K, a million-dollar business look like? And you start putting those pieces in place, you start thinking back to all this critiques, not just about individuals but about sales strategy and I unsubscribed from this person’s inbox because they were selling so often and that’s me now because I’m running a business and I have to sell.
And there’s all these tiny little criticisms and those barbs you can kind of throw from the cheap seats when your ass wasn’t on the line. And this happens in adulthood after the emo phase where you have your emo phase and you grow up a little bit, you start realizing, oh, my parents weren’t mean, they were just trying to pay bills.
There are many instances where there’s a conflicted relationship there. But I feel like that’s sort of why I call it that and everyone needs to go through it because you need to adjust, you need to understand your place, you need to develop discernment. You need to know what you will and won’t do.
But I think it’s just so interesting because now I’m sort of passed that, I see it happening and popping up for other people, this emo phase in their content, everything is bullshit and toxic and all these - and to be fair, a good chunk of it is. However, you look at some of the stories they’re telling and discussion they’re having and it’s like, well, have you ever been on the other side of that?
And until you have, not to say you can’t critique because it’s important to have these conversations, but it really dawns on you the further along you get that you have been sitting in the cheap seats, so to speak. So it’s definitely an awakening to go through.
Susan: It is. And so specifically, what are some of the things that you thought that you’re like, oh, I have obviously been through what you’re talking about. I’ve been through the entrepreneurial emo phase and it’s like, oh, I just didn’t understand how certain things work. I just was really sort of naive.
When we were talking the other day, one of the things that I used to say is like, no one should be spending money on Facebook ads until they hit like, a million dollars in revenue. Why would you do that? And now that I understand there are different Facebook ad strategies that one can partake in to build your list, like oh.
Hillary: Fancy that.
Susan: Fancy that. And it’s like, I was wrong. I was not correct about that.
Hillary: I was not correct. I mean, one of them is you definitely get into a phase in your entrepreneurial emo era where you start to hear things about your heroes and your idols, about them making mistakes or doing these terrible things and you’re hearing these third part.
And of course, I think that people should be believed and taken seriously. However, you get to a stage where everything starts to look bad and it’s like, is anything real? And I think for me, it was the idea that anybody who was super, super famous or really high up, we’re talking tens of millions, seven figures, but that’s probably 10 million plus is predatory by nature because of the way that they are selling.
I thought there was not a way to make that much money in a way that’s - I just thought you had to sell a piece of soul to get there I think. So it felt really easy to sort of - I felt like I was punching up having these conversations and pointing out these flaws when in reality, like now as my business grows and grows, I’m like, you know, I’m one human being trying to do my best and trying to get great results for clients and manage an awesome team and care for everybody and make sure I protect my own time and make sure everything that’s going on is quality.
It’s a million, million plates to spin. So it’s not to say let everyone famous who sucks off the hook because that’s not the conversation I want to have. But I think what’s so important, just to realize is that we forget once - you know what I think it is? I think people once they reach a certain status become less human to us.
Susan: 100%. Yeah.
Hillary: Whereas we give ourselves and each other grace on the ground floor. We sort of look up and we’re like, no, there’s too much money. Especially in the coaching industry, a person has a bad experience with one coach and then a whole industry is garbage.
Susan: Yeah, those threads, when I read those threads, I’m like, oh my goodness. Because it’s - as somebody who is a business owner and who has really strong boundaries around things, and it’s sort of - my grandma used to always say something like if I had a strong judgment about something that she knew I didn’t really know anything about, she would always go, “You don’t know the half of it.”
And she loved to say that. You don’t know the half of it. And I think about that all the time when I read those one-sided bombs people throw online. I’m like, you know, there’s probably another side to this story. Now, does that mean there aren’t - there have been some warranted…
Hillary: Absolutely, no doubt.
Susan: Fallouts out there. But I’ll read something and be like, well, I mean, this is why people have refund policies and this is why because you’re not upholding your end of this bargain, friend.
Hillary: Yeah. It’s interesting too because if you think about it like any other industry, if you go to a restaurant and your meal is bad, you’re not like, fuck all chefs. It’s okay. And I think again, it is important to have people in this emo phase making these critiques and have people thinking critically, but what you also notice is that the people who actually know what’s going on aren’t commenting.
The people who agree and are having catharsis in the moment and who have maybe also had a bad experience that want to feel less alone, which again is awesome. Be in community. But it’s very rare that somebody with experience will step in to say you don’t know the half of it.
So there’s kind of a - I called it a circle jerk but I’ll call it a self-congratulatory loop here because I think it’s a bit of a better term. And often I think it disguises a lot of frustration and anger where people feel like they should be further ahead, or they’re being pushed by marketing to want things that maybe aren’t a fit for them. And that’s hard and I honor that.
But if you were to ask me another thing that I thought would be different when I got this high up, and this is a hard one to talk about, but the guaranteeing 100% perfect A+s across the board client results. And I work so hard to get my clients results. I’m in the trenches with them and you and I talk about this a fair bit where it’s like, you can work your ass off but sometimes it’s just not in the story for someone or sometimes there’s something else going on because there’s something they need to be doing.
I think when we - I was talking to another colleague who runs a really big group program, like high-ticket group program. It’s almost 20K or something. And she was like, look, we’ve worked really hard to make sure as many people as possible get those 20K months, get those solid results, but there’s always going to be 10%, 15%, 20% of people who just aren’t there yet because these things take time.
And those people get angry and they throw bombs on the internet. And I think for me, that kept me actually small for a really long time because I looked around and I was like, well, I don't want to be somebody who screws this up. I don't want to be somebody for whom they pay me a lot of money and then nothing happened and it’s like I ran off in the night with their hard-earned dollars. That was a horror story to me.
But I think I strive to create clear expectations of my clients. That’s why I’m working one-to-one right now, and we’ll be expanding down the line once the systems are perfected, but it was really interesting to kind of be in that category and be like, oh, there’s no way to perfect 10s across the board.
Susan: There really is no way and the thing that I’ve said to you and I say to anybody who is struggling with this and for all of you listening that there is no way that you can guarantee results for your clients. Because guess what? It’s a collaboration and it requires a whole lot of things that are seen and unseen.
There’s so much to a client’s journey that we don’t even have access to, that may not make sense as to why something isn’t working for them. And so much that we don’t know because their internal world that is subconscious may not even be apparent to them.
That doesn’t mean that we don’t show up and still do our best and all those things, but we have to release our grasp on what their results should look like. Because sometimes the best possible thing for the client, as difficult as it is for what we’re doing with them to not work. Because they’re there for something else. And that’s tough. Yes.
Hillary: Every time you say that I’m like, no, I’ll make it work.
Susan: I will force this result. And the thing is right, it definitely sucks when you have this high bar and this high intention of if I just do these things of course it’s going to work out for them. And definite work out for them. That’s the thing. We can’t control that.
Hillary: It’s so true. And it’s always fascinating to me as well because sometimes if I have a client who’s like - a lot of the coaching that I do is positioning and I don’t do coaching but it’s marketing and business coaching in the context of positioning and creative direction and I love it because also, am I a sales coach? No. So if things are - I make that really, really clear to my clients that what we’re working on is something that’s built to attract those systems when they’re ready.
And I always make sure to be really clear in the messaging that that’s the focus. But even I can get caught in that loop where one client has booked 20K of new business and another one is still kind of getting their footing with the offer. It’s hard because I’m like, why are you succeeding and I’m failing you?
But in reality, it’s not a failure because as you say, human beings, everyone’s coming with a universe and galaxies upon galaxies of information and experiences and hangups and heroics, as it were. And I think that there’s just so much there that you don’t know that you can’t control.
So for me, it’s really been a matter of kind of learning to let go of that judgment on myself because that judgment can also tumble into the work I do with the client. But what’s been interesting too is even if I have a client who I was like, okay, well, we didn’t land the 20K months in the 12 weeks we worked together, very well, but you got everything we came to do because I always have their three biggest goals at the top of my notes and I’m always making sure we’re making progress towards those.
And I’m like, we hit those three goals so godspeed. And they come back to me six months, a year later, being like, “You changed my life. A few months after worked together this happened.” So sometimes you got to give stuff room to season too.
Susan: You really do. You really do. So what marketing strategies are you using today that you said were bullshit when you were in your emo phase?
Hillary: One of the most annoying - so I have a show called HAMYAW. It stands for Hillary and Margo Yell at Websites on YouTube. And Margo and I talk about this all the time, and one of the most annoying reality in marketing that you come to when you’re in this - when you’re actually showing up and doing the thing and in the arena is everything works.
And that’s so annoying. The pop-ups, they can’t escape it, up-sell, screen videos, the direct response, clunky, ugly sales page marketing, it’s working for somebody. And I think that in the arrogance of my emo youth, I would just get really dismissive of strategies that I’d seen repeated too much and that I knew were kind of losing steam in the industry.
But what I failed to see as well as the fact that my opinion was very different from their sales results. But I think that - so to answer your question, I’ll get more about this in a minute because I love talking about this piece of it. So I use email marketing and Instagram. Those are my two biggest platforms.
I never really had a huge issue with Instagram but with email, where I’m selling much more frequently, like we’re actually doing back-to-back launch - three months of back-to-back launches right now. Email Hillary saw that happening and had subscribed because I was doing a lot of - I write emails to my listeners. I do it twice a week now.
But if email Hillary had seen that switch, I would have been like, this fucking lady, she’s just trying to sell all the time, I just don’t want what she has, she used to be cool and now she’s always selling, unsubscribe. And you know what? I don’t blame them for unsubscribing and I’m glad because I don’t have to pay for them to be on my list, which is nice.
I think that what was really important to me now is that again, attitude kept me playing small because I was really nervous to show up and sell because I was worried that I was going to make email me mad in an inbox far, far away. They wouldn’t like me anymore.
Everyone wants to be liked, everyone wants that feeling of belonging. We’re herd animals, it’s in our DNA. But I think what was a big a-ha for me, was when I actively started selling and people were excited to see it and excited to get it and that what I was doing was solving problems – and I’ve had people tell me that they read every email I send, especially if it’s a sales email because they just enjoy reading them. My own clients tune into my Instagram story for my launch of Power Position, my coaching, because they’re like, “It’s Power Position TV, this is my favorite time of the quarter!” And I’m like, yes, because they just tune in and they like to watch because I try to be entertaining and do my makeup and I’m playing with my kitten, Dolly Purrton and everything.
Susan: Dolly Purrton.
Hillary: I know, it’s a good name. I was proud of that one. A strong cat pun. That was an interesting wakeup call for me because my Instagram used to be purely personal until a year ago.
Susan: I’m going to go scroll back a year. I’m going to compare and contrast.
Hillary: Yeah, well what was happening on my Instagram was that it was like, personal, personal, personal, “Oh, I’m selling a thing. Hi.” Which works to a point, in terms of getting the word out. But in terms of actually converting people and inviting people to have conversations in my DMs and developing a relationship with my audience where they were looking out for my sales and when my coaching was open again, when I was making certain offers.
And it would have been impossible to do that with the way I was running my Instagram previously. So, I’m really proud of that transition. But it’s an ego shift, I’ll tell you.
Susan: Well, and what’s interesting is – and I get that. Everybody gets those emails from people that are like, “UNSUBSCRIBE ME” in all caps. And Mallory on my team is like, “We are not your inbox maid. There is an unsubscribe button.”
But my point is, every time someone has sent a particularly disgusted email of, “I can’t believe how many emails you send. It’s such a turnoff.” They are someone who has never spent a dime. I guarantee you, people who leave because they think you’re selling too much were never going to buy, or they might buy your Go-Time planner, maybe. Probably not even that.
And so, I’m always like – like you said – your clients who will even read your sales emails because they learn something from that, those are the kinds of people that you want on your list because there’s nothing wrong with letting people know what you are selling. You are in business.
Hillary: It is literally your job. And I think – and I also want to say – in my entrepreneurial emo phase, you know how much I bought and invested in? Zero.
Susan: Very little, friend.
Hillary: I did not by courses. I did not have a coach. It was me and my VA. I did everything myself. and I hired some great people. I did some cool launches with designs canned because I didn’t have a coach to help me not go off the rails there. But I think that that’s something that, when I reflect back, it is really easy to critique something you don’t actively participate in, either as a consumer or as a creator.
And I think that there are people who still have complaints with the industry who have purchased things because they purchased things and didn’t feel like they got ROI or that they didn’t do as promised. And this is an issue with – this is another conversation for another time because this is the challenge with an entire industry whose structure is, “Start a business, have some clients, have a waitlist, have more expensive clients, and then I want you to teach and make a course,” because those aren’t two entirely different skills.
And so, that killed me a little bit. But anyway, that’s something that I observed in myself as well. And now I’m at this phase, I throw money at people like you would not believe and it comes back to me in spades. We were celebrating a big milestone that I don’t have to go into…
Susan: Why not?
Hillary: I’m shy. Okay, so I’ll tell you listeners. Don’t tell nobody. I haven’t talked about it publicly yet. But as of February 5th, we had booked in 100K in contracts for the year already.
Susan: Yay, you’re so nervous on screen even saying it, like you’re in a confessional.
Hillary: I always want to be careful. A lot goes into that. There’s a lot on the backend. I have a great time. I’ve got a great support system. I listen to my coach…
Susan: 100K in the first month mo-fos.
Hillary: And it feels really cool, but it was impossible for me to even imagine this, even a year and a half ago. Because I was, I guess, coming out of my little emo phase shell in some ways still. And if you haven’t invested the money or you haven’t taken the strides, it’s kind of impossible to visualize. You can only go – and part of the reason I wanted to do this journey as well was because you can only take your clients as far as you’ve gone, right?
I had these clients coming to me with these big ideas in their head and I was like, “I can tell you what to do. But if I haven’t experienced it, I can’t give you those insights.” So, for me, I was like, it’s go-time.
Susan: Well, and I think that’s such an important distinction to make. If you recognize that you’re in this emo phase, where you’re in this, sort of like, everything sucks, nothing is real, and you’re in these little gossipy conversations all the time, you are literally setting your own wallet on fire. You are draining your own bank account. You have got to move through that and it doesn’t mean you can’t have strong opinions. It just means as long as you are holding so tightly to that, you can see the same groups of people having the same kinds of conversations over and over again and I’m always like, “Oh there’s that again.” In that amount of time, you could have sold something. Stop.
Hillary: I think it’s interesting because, again, it does speak to the frustration. I think it does speak to feeling like they’re hitting a ceiling and, like, anger about overall messages. But again, I’m with you because what happens in that phase is it starts to feel really bad. Like, if you only take in information about how messed up the industry is and how everyone sucks and is a liar, if you’re consuming that content and that information every day, what do you think is going to happen to your mental state?
Hillary: That happened for me too. I realized these people, who had never heard of me, who didn’t know me, who I made no impact on, whose work I had never bought or experienced, I was throwing stones. And they were living rent-free in my head. Whether it was people who were succeeding faster than I was or these big internet gurus, I was spending so much time just angry because they were at a place I wasn’t. And surely, to get there, I would have had to follow the same paths and sell a piece of my soul and apply for moral bankruptcy. Is it part of the problem with the industry? Yes.
But when you get into this space where you’re consuming that kind of content all the time, again, what do you think is going to happen? You don’t get up and watch horror movies 24/7 every single day. If you did, what do you think would happen?
Susan: Right, and then what happens is you miss the people who are operating businesses with integrity, you are missing the examples, the leadership examples of people who are having a great time doing all sorts of things. But it’s sort of like that, “You don’t know the half of it. Let’s find out.” And then, it’s sort of like, “Oh, that’s why people have those refund policies. That’s why they won’t get on Zoom to let me pick their brain. That’s why…” Then you’re like, god…
Hillary: They’re very bad. I’m a person. I’m one person, you know. I’ve had people tell me who are friends, who I became friends with down the line like, “I met you at so and so event and you talked to me and then you didn’t talk to me and I just felt like you didn’t care.” And I was like, “What? I was probably really tired because probably I was onstage so I was like, “I’m going to sneak away and find a coffee.”
Because I love everybody. I’m a human golden retriever. If I talk to you, I’m probably super-into you and your vibe. I’m not snobby. I’m not like, “I don’t really talk to people.” I fucking talk to people. You want to have a conversation? Tell me your life story. Come on over. This is who I am.
It’s so funny now that I just don’t have – there’s a cap on my energy and I have a lot of energy. There’s a cap on it. You have to respect it and that means telling people no and having things work certain ways where you can kind of protect that.
So, I think for me, it’s not going from adulation to, like, and staying there. For me, my job now, mentally for myself – and my therapist was helpful with this – it was really about finding a place of neutrality with it all. And I think that because if somebody, I that emo phase, were to ask me, like, “Who’s legit?” And I was like, honestly, from my rolodex, most people I know, some of whom have those ra-ra-ra reputations because an angry client went on a tirade and it got a lot of views and they had to kind of take that in stride because it’s not worth it to respond. And you have to let other people see that and let them use it to discern and decide.
It was really about being like, “Okay, I heard this story. Is this person really that bad?” I don’t know. Is this person really that good? I also don’t know. I someone doing this strategy because they’re a bro-marketer or because they’re X, Y, Z? I have no idea. I am not in their heads. I’m not in their businesses. My job is to keep my eye on my own paper. And now that I’m kind of free from that world, when I see it pop up, a part of me is like, “These emo kids and their bangs and their oversized hoodies…” No, I’m kidding.
But to me, at this point, even though I have insights and stuff to say that might be helpful, I stay away from those conversations like a lot of people in my position do because it’s like they’re over there processing. Me stepping in and being like, “Well, most successful people aren’t actually bad…” Like, no one cares. No one cares about that detail because some people who are successful are bad and you just have to kind of have that awakening.
Susan: Oh my god.
Hillary: It’s just a really interesting place to be in. And I think once I realized that living in that zone of, “I’m pissed off all the time,” it was having such a negative impact on my work and my creativity and my energy and also my desire to grow. Because I was like, is there any point if I’m just going to become a bro-marketer?
Susan: It really does remind me of my daughter’s emo phase. It is such a great metaphor. We actually had a conversation where she had a couple of friends in middle school and they were all very, “Let’s go to the Fallout Boy concert. Let’s be miserable. Let’s rage against the machine. Let’s make our algebra teacher’s life miserable because blah, blah, blah.” And one friend in particular was particularly depressed, and Cora is a very good loyal friend. However, the summer between eighth and ninth, she was like, “I really want to be happy and want to do fun things and want to break out of this and I feel like I’m leaving these people behind.”
And I think a lot of entrepreneurs go through that as well, when you go through that emo phase and you’re like, “Oh, this is actually an okay strategy. I actually could sell something and make money,” and then you’ve got friends still in that emo phase that just want to spin and talk shit and be mad. It’s the same thing.
I had to coach my daughter that it was okay to be happy and have interests and, you know, she did, thank goodness. She’s still a little edgy, you know, but…
Hillary: Fabulously so.
Susan: Fabulously edgy. But she’s like – she wouldn’t listen to any popular music. And she’s like – god, it’s just miserable to be like that.
Hillary: It is. And it’s again, like, I think that there’s a feeling of power and control in it. Because I had an emo phase in high school, man. I would go to these little hole in the wall shows at this venue called the Orange Door in my Florida hometown which was probably 10 feet by 10 feet and these super-emo bands from my private school screaming about their feelings sweating. Like, life is so hard. It’s whatever.
But I think that what’s interesting to me in how I came out of the emo phase as a kid, to Cora’s point, I looked around and I was like, “Okay, I think I’m ready to stop wearing all black. I love this sword necklace that I have so I’ll keep that. But I think naturally I’m a pretty colorful and positive person. So, let me go pursue that.”
Because I had goals and I had things that I wanted to do in life and – not to say that people who maintain an emo aesthetic don’t. But I think that what was so important to me was like, “Alright, what’s beyond this sort of pit I’ve made for myself? If I climb out of the pit, is it as terrible as I think outside of it?” The same is true for business because I was like, “Okay, I don’t want to be this person and I don’t want to do that and I don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t…”
And then I was like, “You know whose life me sitting and complaining impacts? Nobodies but mine.” Like, the bro-marketers who you’re angry about, they’re still going to be gajillionaires, no matter how much you complain about it. The industry heavyweights, they’re going to keep selling no matter how many times you send them an email telling them to stop. You know, they have working and thriving business. They’re off on a different island.
And I think that while it can feel powerful and clarifying to have these conversations – and again you should because it teaches you discernment. If you’re in your emo phase, I don’t want you to think that there’s something wrong with it because you actually have to go through it in a lot of ways, like you do as a kid because you start looking around at the world and realize the world kind of sucks in some ways.
I think that for that phase of business, as you kind of move through it and you ask yourself, like, “Am I sitting in the muck right now because it makes me feel strangely better about my life and any frustrations I have with business? Or can I stand up and think about things that I used to want, think about these things that I want to make, think about things that I want to do and start pursuing that instead of pointing fingers at those who are taking their best bite of the apple?”
Susan: Oh my god. That’s the quotable. So, Hillary, where shall the people subscribe? We’ll have all the links in the show notes, but where can they read these emails that you’re going to try to sell them on?
Hillary: Please don’t send me hate mail. So, you can first of all come find me over on Insta. I’ll do my handle. I’ll do my radio voice. You can follow me on Instagram @hcweiss. And then you can visit my website and grab my super-sweet opt-in, get on my email list at www.hillaryweiss.com. And if you’re feeling crazy, go ahead and add me on Instagram and send me a Dm. If you liked this show, or if you had no idea what we were talking about, I would love to hear your best takeaway from today’s show. So, DM me, come say hello. As I mentioned, I love meeting new people, so come say hi so I can be your friend. And let’s achieve neutrality together, y’all.
Thank you for listening to today’s episode. I hope this episode felt like the tough love that you didn’t exactly want but that maybe you needed. 80% of businesses close down within the first 18 months, but that doesn’t mean that’s your destiny. Hell no. You can decide to be in the top 20% and then plan your week and conduct yourself accordingly. Make the moves that get you in that top 20%. Yes, you can and yes you will.
And hey, if you want coaching, if you want a community, if you want to be in a mastermind of people who are really doing it and really earning money, check out my On the 6. I’m going to put a link, you can book a call, we can talk about if it’s a good fit for you. So, check out that link and join me in On the 6. My clients are making lots of money and having beautiful lives.
Hey, thank you for listening all the way to the end. And since you here, one last thing. If you’re a coach and you’re determined to build your dream coaching practice and make significantly more money, then I want to work with you. Go to my website susanhyatt.co. click on “Work with Susan” That’s where you’ll see the options. We’ve got a couple of things for you to check out.
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