RCC 40: The Gender Pay Gap and How to Build a Financial Legacy with Emily Millsap

In countries around the world, men continue to make significantly more money than women – even when they do the same jobs. This is true here in the US, despite the passage of the Equal Pay Act in 1963. And the gender pay gap is even wider for women of color, who are paid even less on the dollar than white women when compared to the salaries of white men.

I’m on a mission – along with many others – to close the gender pay gap and educate women about how to build wealth and create a financial legacy. That’s why this episode is the first of four in a series about women & money. To talk about the gender pay gap and why women and men tend to build different amounts of wealth, I’m joined by the brilliant Emily Millsap.

Emily Millsap is a Senior Wealth Planner working with clients in Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, and Missouri. She provides clients with a holistic perspective of their financial picture and has tons of experience helping people understand and reform their relationship with money. Emily is an expert on building wealth and helping clients get over the mind-drama that commonly shapes our ideas about money and how we should spend it.

Emily and I talk about the biggest differences she sees between men’s and women’s money mindsets, some of the biggest mental obstacles women have around money, and why we have to break the taboo that money isn’t an appropriate topic of conversation. Emily also shares some super common money mistakes that she sees clients make and what women often get right about wealth management.

Your challenge this week is to treat yourself to a nice, everyday luxury – like a fancy latte, avocado toast, or whatever it is you like to splurge on – and brainstorm one way that you could make more money this year. Your focus should be on building wealth – not on cutting back those tiny expenditures that make you feel good!

In this episode, we discuss:

  • Why the gender pay gap is so persistent.
  • Why financial advice like "stop buying fancy lattes/avocado toast/etc." is annoying, sexist, and misguided.
  • The importance of factoring your emotions into conversations about money, wealth, and legacy.
  • Some of the common mental obstacles that women have surrounding money and their ability to make it.
  • How the taboo against talking about money is keeping women from making, saving, and investing as much money as they could.
  • The signs of a healthy relationship with money and common money mistakes to avoid.

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Welcome to the Rich Coach Club, the podcast that teaches you how to build your dream coaching practice and how to significantly increase your income. If you're a coach and you're determined to start making more money, this show is for you. I'm master certified life coach Susan Hyatt, and I'm psyched for you to join me on this journey. You're listening to the first of four episodes on women and money. Here we go.

Korea, Estonia, Japan, Chile, Latvia, Israel, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States of America. What do all of these countries have in common? A massive gender pay gap. In all the countries I just listed, men earn significantly more than women doing the same type of work, and in Korea, the average woman earns 65% of what a man earns, which creates a 35% pay gap.

So that's like, earning around 32K a year while your male coworker doing the exact same job earns 50K. Can you imagine walking up to order a sandwich and a server hands you 65% of a sandwich while your male colleague gets the whole thing? You'd be like, excuse me, what the fuck? Give me the rest of my sandwich, I'm hungry.

Or can you imagine paying full price for a car and it only has 65% of the seatbelts? Or a house that has 65% of its roof? No, you would never accept that, and yet that's the situation when it comes to what women are being paid. So that's Korea.

What about here in the US? Surely things are much better here. Well, not really. Here in the US, we have the Equal Pay Act of 1963, which requires that men and women are given equal pay for equal work in the same job, but this pay act hasn’t resolved our wage gap issues. Far from it. 56 years after the Equal Pay Act was signed into law, American women are still earning way less than men.

And okay, is it getting smaller? Are women catching up to men in terms of how they're earning? Are things improving? Well yes, but it's happening so slowly. Check this out. If we continue crawling along at our current pace, we'll have to wait until the year 2056 until white women are earning the same as white men, but that's just white women.

Not surprisingly, the statistics are much worse if you're a woman of color. For black women, it's the year 2124 and for Latina women, 2248. That is not okay. Now, y'all know that I'm super passionate about helping women make more money. It's no secret. So on this podcast, I've decided to do a special four-part series that's all about women and money.

In this series, we're going to get real about you and your money and we're going to talk about the gender pay gap, we're going to talk about financial planning, we're going to debunk some money myths, we're going to talk about money-making opportunities that most women don't ever pursue, like commercial real estate investing, and we're going to talk about all the emotional gunk that blocks you from earning what you could be earning.

And I hope these episodes leave you feeling wide awake, informed, empowered, and ready to take action to earn significantly more money. This is part one of four. Here we go.

As always, we're starting with a segment that I call your two-minute pep talk, and this is the part of the show where I share some motivation and encouragement to get your week started off right. And I try to keep things to two minutes or less. Today's pep talk is less of a pep talk and more of a rant.

You know what really irritates me? All of those so-called financial experts who tell us if you want to have more money, stop buying that fancy latte every day, stop buying avocado toast, cancel your gym membership, cancel your Netflix account, cancel, cancel. Because all those little purchases add up.

You know what? Fuck that. You don't become wealthy by skipping lattes and saving five bucks here and five bucks there. You become wealthy by earning significantly more. Instead of urging women to clip coupons and scrimp and save and deny themselves simple luxuries like a nice coffee, we need to be urging women to earn way more money.

Think of it like this; let's say you stop buying lattes and you save five bucks a day for a year. That's $1825 per year. Okay fine, you saved $1825. Cool. But now imagine this; imagine if instead of worrying about lattes, you negotiate for a pay increase at your job or you add a new revenue stream to your business, or you increase your hourly rate with your clients, or you invest in real estate and become a landlord or you negotiate for a book deal or speaking gig that generates thousands or all of the above, and now you've increased your annual income by 30,000, or 50,000, or 100,000, or more.

Which is more powerful? Which makes a bigger difference in your life? Saving $1825 per year or earning an extra 100K per year? When we tell women to skip the latte or skip the avocado toast or don't get a pedicure, this is so sexist and poor financial guidance. Instead of telling women to stop enjoying nice things and nice experiences, we need to be teaching women and girls to dream bigger and reach higher and demand more so we can earn more than our fathers and grandfathers combined.

That is how we'll create a world where women hold their fair share of wealth. So get that five-dollar latte and enjoy every delicious sip, and then head back to your office and generate 20K this month in your coaching practice. Instead of scrimping and saving, focus on earning and investing. This is how you'll really change your financial situation, your life, and your legacy. So women, let's focus on legacy. Not lattes. Pep talk complete.

So now we're moving into the part of the show where I give shout-outs to you. Shout-outs to listeners, clients, all the wonderful people in my business community. And today, I want to give a shout-out to Jessica JEllen. So JEllen writes with a five-star iTunes review, "You are such an inspiration. I especially appreciate your recent episode about online haters. Hearing your advice is so helpful. Thank you for sharing your wisdom."

JEllen, I so appreciate you listening to that special episode. It means a lot to me. I've certainly dealt with a lot of haters in my time and I'm happy to spread advice on that issue.

And now we have another testimonial from Gottoride. So Gottoride, I think that's Tracy. Hi Tracy. She says, "I love the episode with Ciara Foy talking about how to take better care of yourself in general, but especially with nutritious foods. Nothing extreme, just good solid advice on how to power up with healthy food. Really had some good takeaways for my own coaching practice. Thanks Susan and Ciara."

Those are my shout-outs for today. And hey, if you have something to say about this show, please send an email to my team, support@susanhyatt.co or post a five-star iTunes review about this show or post something on social media and tag me and you might hear your name on a future episode. I love giving shout-outs to folks in my community so holler at me. Thank you for the love. I love you right back.

Alright, it's time for an interview and today I am speaking with an expert in building wealth. Her name is Emily Millsap and she happens to live in my neighborhood. I have a thousand questions to ask her because she helps women get over their money drama and create wealth and legacy, so here we go.


Susan: Welcome to the show Emily Millsap.

Emily: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

Susan: So, so much of the money work I do with women is around the drama that they create in their minds around deserving money, thinking they're good at making money or not, worrying that they're not going to have enough to do what they want to do, and I am so thrilled to hear that part of what you do is help women work through that so they can create a real legacy.

Emily: Absolutely. I think people in general try to make money issues, whether it's saving for retirement or making a spending plan or whatever we may be. We try to make it all about the math and it is every bit as much about emotion and how we feel about it and what we interpret about it and how it impacts every single aspect of our life. Sometimes the emotional side even outweighs the math, so it's important to factor that in.

Susan: So, I am so curious. When you sit down with - and I obviously invited you to be on the show because this is a four-part series about women and money and I am really on a mission to help women create wealth, not just a paycheck. And that's your whole business is helping people create a legacy and wealth. And what do you - when you sit down with men versus women, what do you notice is the biggest difference?

Emily: You know, that really sort of varies from person to person, but I would say men typically like to jump right into here are all my financial statements and here are the numbers and here's this, where women are like, let me tell you why I'm here. So I would like to accomplish this and this and this, and they're I think a little more tuned into the holistic side of things. I want to tell you about my family, I want to tell you why this matters, and then help me get to where I want to be.

Susan: And when you're helping women get to where they want to be, what do you see as some of the biggest obstacles in their minds?

Emily: A lot of times it has to do with perception. Sometimes it's the perception we have about ourselves, whether I don't deserve this or I'm not sure that I even would know what to do with it if I had it. I don't feel like I'm prepared or qualified to manage this on my own. Sometimes it's the perception of the world around us. I don't know. TVs and movie shows, people are like, billionaires and they're buying brand new cars and closets full of clothes, and for most people that's not real life.

But you know, you think back to when I was growing up, Roseanne was a TV show and they were clipping coupons and they were trying to make ends meet and they had just an everyday average house and you don't see a whole lot of that in television shows and movies today. It's really about this culture of wealth and abundance and no one talks about what it takes to get there, and are we doing it - are we leveraging ourselves? Is it all debt or have we really paid for things? And so I think some of that factors in as well.

Susan: That's such a good point and I hadn't really thought about that. I mean, of course what we're watching, what we're listening to, I mean, I talk about in the Bare process how everything that you allow coming through all of your senses, not just what you're eating, impacts your mood, impacts how you behave in the world, and so of course it makes sense that we're consuming so many shows and movies that are obsessed with like - I mean, the most recent example would be Crazy Rich Asians.

Which I devoured because I'm like, what? Everybody loves to think about what they would do with all this money, and then there's even online, there's an account called Bonkers Closets, which is a show. I don't know if you've seen that one where the whole thing is that they basically - it's a reality show where they go visit the most outrageous personal closets of people that you know, they have - it's obviously not just a walk-in closet but almost the size of half my house with a fireplace and a bar in the closet and they've got every Louis Vuitton ever made. That kind of thing.

And so it is interesting how our culture in particular is obsessed with extravagance. But I think what's interesting is that we are at a time, even though the gender gap is still wide, we are at a time where women are earning more money than ever before, and you were the one who actually sent me a clip from a financial journal you were reading that got me so fired up.

It basically talked about the disparity, the pay gap disparity and how I think it's year 2056, white women will finally be on parity with white men, but when you look at women of color, it's another 100 years for black women, about 200 years for Latina women. And only 1% of wealth managed is female or minorities.

Emily: Right. So it's really - this pay gap is such a hot topic and some people really believe it's a thing and other people really don't believe it's a thing. But if we just go with facts, because I always default to facts, there's a social security fact sheet that's out there and in 2016, median earnings of working age women who work full time was $40,000 compared to men who earned $50,000. So, social security administration, the keeper of all income for all people, they have officially declared there is a pay gap as of 2016.

Susan: Hey, you hear that haters? All these people that want to argue with me. Jesus. There's a pay gap. Okay, go ahead. Carry on.

Emily: $40,000 for full-time working women compared to $50,000 for men, and so that builds into so many different things. So also in 2016, the average annual social security income for women who were 65 or older was about $13,891 a year. Men, $17,663. So if you're living on a fixed income and retirement, that might not seem like a whole lot of dollars but it really is. In fact, so much so that women are 80% more likely to live in poverty past the age of 65 than male counterparts.

So it's a huge deal. It's our ability to put food on the table, it's our ability to save for retirement. It's what we're going to get back in social security. If there's a pay gap, it impacts every single aspect of what we can do now and what we're able to do later.

Susan: Exactly, and I think like, when you think about - and I've heard women say this like, "Oh, it's 20 cents." Okay, what you're describing, Emily though is here's what 20 cents per dollar looks like over time. It looks like you're 80% more likely to live in poverty when you're old. Hello, wake up.

Emily: Which means at some point in time, these women will have to choose between food and medication, and no human should ever be in that role.

Susan: And the other thing that I really think about is I'm looking at my daughter who's going off to college in the fall and I know you have teenagers as well and you look at the student loan debt that people absorb, take on, and you know, when you're looking at the difference between 40K and 50K, that's 10 that you could wipe your student loan debt in a couple years or five years or whatever it might be if you were being paid what your male counterparts are getting paid.

So it's important now more than ever that women start to turn towards their money because in addition to earning less, the other thing that I was talking about earlier in this episode is that women are also taught that we're not good at math. We're not good at numbers, we're terrible with money. And we're given that advice like, just skip the latte and scrimp and save when it's like no, how about we demand to be paid what we should be paid so that we're earning at a higher level instead of skipping a freaking latte.

Emily: Right. Goodness, so many thoughts about this that I want to say. First of all, I'm so excited that you're doing this because this is the beginning of really starting some change. Since our very first job, and this is men and women, this is everybody. But from our very first job, we are told not to talk about compensation. We are told not to ever tell another person what we earn. And so there's this culture of secrecy around it.

So, many people really truly don't know if there's a pay gap or not because we're not talking about to our counterparts about what they make. And so that's a piece of it, and then you build in the layer that money is really the last taboo. We're going to talk about our personal intimate lives way before we talk about money, and our parents, if you ask how much do you earn, that's a crack on the bottom with, "Don't ask that question."

We need to really abolish this culture of secrecy around money and we need to start talking about it, both from a pay gap standpoint and from a just factual listen, reality of the situation is no one teaches us how to money. I'm going to use money as a verb here. No one teaches us how to money. They'll teach us how to balance a checkbook. They'll teach us what is good debt versus bad debt, but they don't really teach us the day-to-day how do we make these decisions and how emotional this is and where we even get our beliefs about money from.

And so until we really start talking about it, until we teach our children about money and that money has a higher purpose, it's not just about buying the biggest, brightest car and all of that, I think we're going to continue to struggle with that a little bit.

Susan: Well, and I agree wholeheartedly with you. I mean, the three things that I was raised in the south, you never talk about are sex, religion, and politics, money, and people of a certain generation bristle when any of those things are brought up and it's interesting how this whole culture of secrecy around money, you're correct, keeps women from knowing.

And you usually when I'm working with a woman in corporate America, I promise you there has never been a time I've coached a woman in corporate America where she hasn't found out or been made aware that she was passed up for a raise by a guy who was lesser qualified, less experienced, or found out that her cohorts that were male were making more than her just because she was male. Often, she was doing a better job.

And so this secrecy, like no one talks about their salary, no one can talk about raises, no one can talk about what they got for their bonus or whatever, and no one just culturally at large being willing to say this is how much I make, this is what it took to make it, here's how I'm investing it. Men will go off into groups and talk about these kinds of things but women are left to think that that's not the conversation for them.

Emily: Right, absolutely.

Susan: And so I'm curious, Emily, you and the business that you're in, have you experienced male clients thinking you're not qualified because you're female? Have you had pushback from your counterparts?

Emily: When I was a younger woman, I think that that was definitely something that I struggled with. That was definitely a challenge. Now that I've been in the business almost 20 years, I have all of these letters behind my name, I have graduate programs and financial therapy and all these other things, it's less common but part of that I think is due to how over the line I've gone on all of the credentials and these designations and all of these other things that I've done.

So kind of making myself a subject matter expert has really helped with that. But definitely as a younger woman I did see some of that. And it's disheartening really to sort of see.

Susan: Well, and I wonder what have you observed in terms of your female clients. You mentioned before that they definitely come in wanting you to understand about their families, wanting to understand why they have the goals that they have. And you mentioned that they sometimes are like, I don't know how to handle this money, or I can't be trusted with it or whatever. Talk to me about what you do with a female client to help her understand the legacy she's creating.

Emily: One of my favorite exercises to do, and this is a little more on the financial therapy side than the financial planning side is let's work through an exercise where you give me three examples of people and they could be real people in your life or they could be people on TV or a movie. So three people who have a really great relationship with money, and people who maybe are really bad at it.

So we have our six people and then I go alright, so have you ever peeked behind the curtain? Do you know this for a fact that this person has a great relationship with money or is this something that you interpret? And if you interpret it, what's it based on? Is it based on the house they live in, the car they drive, that they're always taking a vacation? Or is there something else that's happened.

And 97% of the time this is all an assumption that we've made based on what we see and what we interpret in their day-to-day life. In reality, they may have this amazing house and this car and take all these trips, but they could be hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. We don't know. And so to get back to sort of reality and factual things, then we start to look at so where are we, what are some things that - what is your first money memory, what are some things that you've done really well in money, and then we have to talk about some money mistakes because we all make them.

And then how did you overcome that and what would be different if you had not made that mistake and what did you learn from that that has maybe really changed your behavior going forward? So we can talk about some of those things and it's sort of just like building confidence in anything. It's a process. One little baby step at a time we start to get there.

Susan: I love this exercise of three people that you think are good with money and three people that you think are bad with money and what are your assumptions based on is so interesting. And then people who are good with money, and it could go the other way like if you do factually know people who are genuinely good with money, what was it about them that you can emulate and adopt and how did they learn to be good with money?

I think that women tend to think that's not part of my wheelhouse before they even consider that it's a skill that can be learned beyond what you said, balancing a checkbook, which interestingly almost nobody knows how to do that anymore either.

Emily: Right, yes. But we all need to let ourselves off the hook on this money conversation, really in a pretty significant way because no one is - we have all this pressure that we need to have this impeccable relationship with money, but no one's teaching us how to do it. No one's talking about what that really is. No one's saying listen, this is going to be different for you and for your neighbor and for your brother, just like a relationship with food is different for every person, or a relationship with the gym is different for every person.

It's really a personal thing. I can have two clients that have an identical net worth and very similar incomes, and what their spending plan looks like and what emotions come out of money could be night and day.

Susan: It's so true. I love that you just said that because what's interesting is that - and I've talked about this before on earlier podcasts. And Scott Hyatt will have a chance to come on this podcast in a couple weeks, you guys, and defend himself. But Scott and I have very different money stories and we come from very different money backgrounds.

He was raised by an accountant, so there's a - his dad taught accounting so there was always this pressure to be good with money, to be responsible with money. And I came from a blue-collar family that it was like, entrepreneurial, but feast or famine kind of attitude towards money. So it's interesting when he and I go into our accountant for meetings, and we can have the - we are, we're married. We have the exact same reality in terms of numbers, but we tell ourselves very different stories about those numbers, and it's all based on emotion like what you were saying.

Emily: Absolutely.

Susan: So when you have different clients with the same net worth, the same income but very different spending plans, when you say no one teaches us how to be good with money and no one teaches us your relationship with money can be different than your neighbors and then your best friends, what do you see as the signs of a healthy relationship with money and creating legacy?

Emily: So I would say the first thing is we got to stop living paycheck to paycheck, people. It is not a zero sum game. You do not try to get to zero at the end of every single month.

Susan: Or negative $2.58, which is how my college son lives his life.

Emily: Yes, absolutely. So that's really kind of an important part of it. Another part of it is we have to identify the why. And so for some people it's I want to make sure that I leave as much of a legacy to my kids as possible. I don't want them to have student debt, I don't want my grandkids to have student debt, I don't want them to have to struggle. And other people are like, the kids can get whatever they get, whatever's left over at the end, but I want to travel, I want to live my best life from the minute I retire until the minute I can't anymore.

And so really it's different for every person, but it starts with we've got - I don't want to use budget because that's the other B word. It feels like diet. It's restrictive and horrible and nobody wants to make a budget, but a spending plan, that's like, proactive and...

Susan: I like that name. I'm going to introduce that to Scott. If he says something about a budget one more time.

Emily: That is the other B word. We don’t use that. But if we can have a spending plan in place, and so we definitely have to have all of our categories, we have to have a place to live, we have bills that we have to pay, we have a household budget, which is the most underutilized budget category. Everybody really cuts that one too far and that's why most of them fail.

We have to have a category for some savings as well, for building for the future, but it's like the very first thing when you go to the gym and you work with a trainer and you're trying to get in shape, they tell you to write down everything you eat. We kind of have to do that with money too because if not, next thing we know we're putting stuff on a credit card and we're spending more than what we even realize.

And I ask, I'm mean about money. I ask all kinds of questions and make people talk about it. But I ask how much do you spend? And I need real actual dollars. Not a sum of what all of your bills equal, but what are you actually spending on everything? Entertainment, dining out. I love when I see booze in a spending plan because I know that's a real one. They've accounted for everything.

But we have to sort of really gather all of that, do the exercise to track what we're truly, truly spending. And it's not about cutting things out. Again, that household budget, which is like, the quality of life category, that's dining out and entertainment and gym memberships and all those fun things. We have to put those in there or we're never going to stick to it.

But we want to make sure that we don't have too much house and too much car. Those are maybe the categories that I'll hit first before I tell you not to buy your latte.

Susan: Interesting. And so when you talked before about money mistakes and we've all made them, what are some of the common money mistakes you notice that you help people understand like, this is something lots of people do. Just because listeners are probably - they're many entrepreneurs listening to this who feel like they have a dangerous relationship with money or a scary relationship with money and maybe feeling shame around some mistakes that they've made.

Emily: And there's so much shame around money mistakes. I have actually been in meetings where I've been talking with someone who said, "Well, I'm on my third marriage and it took me two tries and then I got it right the third time." But then they're talking about a 401K that they cashed out when they were 24 and oh my gosh, had they not cashed that out, what could that have grown to today?

And I'm like, so we're less concerned about the third marriage and more concerned about however many, $4000, $5000 that was in this 401K that we cashed out. We just seem to put so much more weight on money mistakes and I think that circles back to there's so much pressure to have this amazing relationship with money, to be good with money, we feel the weight of these money mistakes so much more.

And so that's definitely one of them, if we've cashed out a 401K. Too much debt is one that a lot of times - how in the world did I end up with $50,000 worth of credit card debt at 28% interest rate. That is another one. Not having an emergency fund and then life happens is a big one. And then playing the zero sum game. Living paycheck to paycheck, and I talk with people all the time. I make six figures and I am still living paycheck to paycheck and stop the madness. How do I break the cycle?

Susan: Yeah, there's a lot of people I talk to in that same boat and I think - I can't remember what statistic just came out and you may know it, but it was talking about the percentage of Americans who could get their hands on $400 if they needed to and it was a pretty low...

Emily: It's really low.

Susan: Yeah, that most people really don't have access to an emergency fund, and I see this in business all the time that there's not a lot of cushion and so if there's a launch or there's a project that's invested in and it doesn't go well, then what? And so the...

Emily: Then we use the credit cards.

Susan: Right, and the entrepreneurial journey can be really roller coaster-y because of this, which is why I'm really devoted to these kinds of conversations to help women get over their money shame, start talking about, and turning towards their numbers and learning how to invest in wealth and not just a paycheck, and like you said, living paycheck to paycheck.

Emily: And the rule of thumb is that you want three to six months worth of your expenses on hand for emergencies or opportunities. It's not just for emergencies. It's for opportunities as well. And that's not just the sum of your mortgage and your car payment and your utilities. That's your total lifestyle. Your total cost of living for each month.

That's the booze and the entertainment and the dining out and all of those other things that you typically do when things are going well. We want three to six months worth on hand for emergencies or opportunities, and if you spend a little out of it, then you need to replenish it. Put a little back.

Susan: And what do you see as the most promising thing about your female clients? What do you love about your female investors?

Emily: That they truly, truly want to get it right. They care about learning it, they care about truly understanding. I love that they don't really by and large want to do it on their own. They want to partner with experts and great people. So a CPA to help on the tax side and the state planning attorney to help with the transition to the next generation and financial planner to help kind of line everything out. Your financial advisor to help pick what investments are best and they love building a team around it. It really is a team sport. So they love building that team and having those trusted advisors that they can go to for each category and they get them all to collaborate, which is just a beautiful thing.

Susan: Oh my god. So first of all, I love how you talked about money as a verb and I also love that we're going to money as a team sport, ladies.

Emily: Absolutely.

Susan: Right? It's not just you and a bookkeeper or you and a CPA. That there's a team of people assembled to help you grow your wealth and your legacy.

Emily: Because Uncle Sam's not going to keep those tax laws the same. He's going to keep changing them.

Susan: Oh my god, no kidding. And as I look forward to being an empty nester and we're kind of looking at where might we be once these kids are all gone soon, and I'm looking at the different tax laws for different states and I'm looking at all these things, but you know what, those rules can change at any time.

Emily: Absolutely, and they will.

Susan: And they will. It's amazing. And you know, you know better than most people listening what happens with an entrepreneur and taxes and investments and it's just so important, especially for women, to not rely on other people to know about this, that you've got to know about it intimately because I'm sure you work with a lot of women who've been through divorce.

Emily: Absolutely. I've been through one myself.

Susan: Who left if up to - it was the opposite with my parents. My dad kind of left it up to my mom and he didn't know when they divorced, he honestly - she had to teach him where things were, how to write a check. He hadn't written a check since the day they got married and they were married 32 years.

Emily: And you know, that's really pretty common. It's funny, when I was going through the financial therapy program and did that graduate program, they talk about how when you're looking for your life partner, that person you're going to spend time with, you want someone who has really similar likes. You want to have similar hobbies and enjoy doing the same kinds of things, but there's this really cool phenomenon. I think it's cool, that we often gravitate towards a partner who has opposite money behaviors.

So if we're a saver, we kind of gravitate towards a spender, or if we're a spender, we kind of gravitate towards a saver because there's a little piece of us that wishes we had a little bit of that balance. And so I do see that all the time. We'll have one person who's kind of the financial decision-maker and the other person tends to be a little bit of a money avoider. We kind of don't want to think about it, talk about it, work on it, really participate in any way.

But life does happen, and whether it's a divorce or someone passes away, I mean women, we live longer than men. That just happens. So as this transitions and we are going to end up controlling more of the wealth, so we have to know how to do this when that time comes.

Susan: It's so good. I know. And my husband is nine and a half years older than me so I kid him all the time about it. I'm just like, listen, you're not even going to be around.

Emily: Absolutely.

Susan: I'm like, I think I have a bigger say in this. No, I'm kidding. But honestly, if you could say one final thing to women listening about the importance of understanding investing versus just spending or managing, what would you say?

Emily: Find that trusted advisor. I can't stress that enough. Find that person or that team of people who you absolutely trust and then take your time at the table. They want to sit down with you and talk to you. They want to make sure that you understand and that you feel comfortable, and they will block as much time as you need to make sure that you're there. So if you're having a hard time making that happen, maybe that's not the right person and shop around a little bit. Find that person who will be part of your team and get everybody to the table to work on you as a whole.

Susan: Take your time at the table. Oh my god, I think that's what we need to call this podcast episode. That is so awesome. Now, we're going to put in the show notes how people can contact you, but how do you best work with people and how can people find you?

Emily: I work with kind of a regional investment firm, financial firm and so you can find me really easily. We'll post the information on here but you can find me really easy on the website. So I've got a direct line, an email, and you can reach me there.

Susan: Awesome. So if you guys contact Emily, which I think you should, make sure you tell her you're a Rich Coach Club listener so she knows she's dealing with a badass bitch.

Emily: Absolutely.

Susan: Alright, thank you so much Emily.

Emily: Thank you.


That was one of my favorite interviews of all time. I could literally talk to her for another 2000 hours easily. Before we wrap things up, I have a resource I want to recommend for you. It's an organization called Ladies Get Paid. This organization provides career and salary negotiation and professional development for women, and their mission is closing the wage gap and fighting for equal pay one raise at a time.

They've got a ton of resources on their website like a podcast, webinars, articles, events you can attend, and so much more. So go to ladiesgetpaid.com and check them out. Thank you for listening to today's episode. Again, this episode was part one in a special four-part series on women and money. Be sure to come back next week for the next installment and here's my call to action for you.

I want you to enjoy a nice latte or avocado toast or pedicure, any type of basic everyday luxury that makes you really happy. And then I want you to write down one way you could earn significantly more money this year. I do not want you to write down how you could save $1000 this year. I want you to write down how you could earn $10,000, $50,000, $100,000 or more, and write down one money generating activity. Start shifting your focus away from scrimping and saving and towards earning.

Alright, thank you so much listening to Susan Hyatt's Rich Coach Club. If you enjoyed today's show, please head over to susanhyatt.co/rich where you'll find a free worksheet with audio called Three Things You Can Do Right Now to Get More Clients. You can download the worksheet and the audio, print it out, there's a fun checklist for you to check off. Just three things to do. Check, check, checkidy-check.

This worksheet makes finding clients feel so much simpler and not so scary. So head to susanhyatt.co/rich to get that worksheet. Over there, you're also going to find a free Facebook you can join especially for coaches. Bring your coaching practice and your income to the next level at susanhyatt.co. See you next week.


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